Re: [Lazarus] Suggestion for TRadioGroup documentation OK, I was just hoping for a sentence or paragraph to be added to the documentation. In HTML you group radiobuttons by giving every button in the group the same name but different values. I started with a tgroupbox then went to a tradiogroupbox when it didn't work. Still got -1 for ItemIndex so I defined some with tstrings and got a duplicate set, but itemindex works on those. Aha! But a radio button that doesn't belong to a group isn't much different than a checkbox.
I agree with most things said about documentation except that nobody has time to read it all. And it can change, so you have to keep rereading. Being a multilingual project complicates things too. When I started in Linux I read (and printed) howtos, took them very seriously. But by the time I got around to doing what I was reading about I found the howtos were years old and almost worthless. I don't have my internal help working yet, and it may not be as good as Delphi's when I do. So I Google a lot. Documentation that looks like it came out of doxygen turns me off because so much of it's bad. Good internal help may be a thing of the past. I've seen bad documentation that looks like it was written by fledgling technical writers and tells you obvious things. I agree, the programmer is the ultimate reference/authority but I've had to document projects and didn't enjoy it either. So I think some compromise like the newbie tech writer writes it and the programmer checks/edits it might work. How that works in a multilingual environment I haven't a clue. Really, I'm sort of trying out Lazarus again. A year or so when I tried it last I kept getting an error which, from Googling, I thought came from the fact that OpenBSD basically has no working locale and little interest in it. So I gave up on using it. Now I find it's better, and when I get the error doing a "clean up and build" seems to always get rid of it. "Illegal character in format string" I think it was. On 4/8/16, lazarus-requ...@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org <lazarus-requ...@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org> wrote: > Send Lazarus mailing list submissions to > lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > lazarus-requ...@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > lazarus-ow...@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Lazarus digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Suggestion for TRadioGroup documentation (Michael Van Canneyt) > 2. Re: *** GMX Spamverdacht *** Re: Suggestion for TRadioGroup > documentation (J?rgen Hestermann) > 3. Re: Suggestion for TRadioGroup documentation (Bart) > 4. Re: *** GMX Spamverdacht *** Re: Suggestion for TRadioGroup > documentation (Ondrej Pokorny) > 5. Re: Suggestion for TRadioGroup documentation (J?rgen Hestermann) > 6. Re: *** GMX Spamverdacht *** Re: Suggestion for TRadioGroup > documentation (J?rgen Hestermann) > 7. Re: *** GMX Spamverdacht *** Re: Suggestion for TRadioGroup > documentation (Ondrej Pokorny) > 8. Re: *** GMX Spamverdacht *** Re: Suggestion for TRadioGroup > documentation (Michael Thompson) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2016 17:35:46 +0200 (CEST) > From: Michael Van Canneyt <mich...@freepascal.org> > Subject: Re: [Lazarus] Suggestion for TRadioGroup documentation > To: Lazarus mailing list <lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org> > Message-ID: <alpine.deb.2.10.1604081729490.22...@home.telenet.be> > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed > > > > On Fri, 8 Apr 2016, Graeme Geldenhuys wrote: > >> On 2016-04-08 15:54, Michael Thompson wrote: >>> To be fair, a TGroupBox gets things dropped in it, and both nomenclature >>> and look/feel are similar. >> >> I fully agree. As far as I can remember, even in my Delphi days I've >> made that mistake of dropping radiobutton controls on a TRadioGroup. >> Bart, it's not as obvious as you think. It's learning by error, and then >> getting used to that fact. > > Or maybe read the documentation ? At least in the case of early Delphis > that > would have helped. (can't comment on current Lazarus) > > Thinking that you start without reading any form of documentation is an > attitude which I highly condemn. > > Unfortunately, this attitude seems typical for IT. > > If NASA or Airbus or Boeing engineers would use that approach, > I guess a lot of rockets, planes and whatnot would fall on our heads. > > I am glad they do not seem to have this attitude. > > Even cars come with a manual: usually located in the glove box, because > your average citizen manages to open that without "Quick start guide". > > Michael. > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2016 18:56:16 +0200 > From: J?rgen Hestermann <juergen.hesterm...@gmx.de> > Subject: Re: [Lazarus] *** GMX Spamverdacht *** Re: Suggestion for > TRadioGroup documentation > To: Lazarus mailing list <lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org> > Message-ID: <5707e2b0.3030...@gmx.de> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed > > Am 2016-04-08 um 17:35 schrieb Michael Van Canneyt: > > Thinking that you start without reading any form of documentation is an > attitude which I highly condemn. > > I would love to read documentations but very often there is none (or even > worse it is wrong, outdated, confusing and incomplete). > When asking for documentation here I am often answered: Check the code. > > > > Unfortunately, this attitude seems typical for IT. > > It has evolved into this. > When I started with Turbo Pascal very excellent documentation was wide > spread. > Today with fast version cycling it seems that nobody has the time for it > anymore > or (even worse) not even has the knowledge about how things exactly behave. > So we are all left to use trial and error which is realy sad. > > > > If NASA or Airbus or Boeing engineers would use that approach, I guess a > lot of rockets, planes and whatnot would fall on our heads. > > I am glad they do not seem to have this attitude. > > I am not sure that they do not have it. > I saw a report on TV about a test flight of the A380 some years ago > where technicians were wondering, why the air craft computer was > pumping fuel from one tank to the other in a certain flight situation. > It seemed they needed a lot of time to find it out. > I would have expected that the complexity was not driven to a point > where even the engineers do not fully understand what they have built. > Could be that we just had a lot of luck. > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2016 17:59:28 +0200 > From: Bart <bartjun...@gmail.com> > Subject: Re: [Lazarus] Suggestion for TRadioGroup documentation > To: Lazarus mailing list <lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org> > Message-ID: > <CAMye31yBW2kY0tbgBgag+L=4kum0uykapkpjf0blhxh0+xm...@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > On 4/8/16, Michael Van Canneyt <mich...@freepascal.org> wrote: > >> Or maybe read the documentation ? At least in the case of early Delphis >> that >> would have helped. (can't comment on current Lazarus) > > Yep, before the days of Internet, when I bought my copy of Delphi2, It > had a manual. > And even the I bought books on Pascal and Dephi and pressed F1 very > often (Delphi in those days had a very good help file). > > (My initial TP 3.0 only came with a reader in Hebrew, which wasn't > very helpfull since I'm Dutch) > > But even if you don't read a manual or something like that, and just > play with the component, after just a few minutes you must have seen > the Items property, played with it and see what it does? > > Bart > > Bart > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2016 18:04:26 +0200 > From: Ondrej Pokorny <laza...@kluug.net> > Subject: Re: [Lazarus] *** GMX Spamverdacht *** Re: Suggestion for > TRadioGroup documentation > To: Lazarus mailing list <lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org> > Message-ID: <5707d68a.1020...@kluug.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed > > On 08.04.2016 18:56, J?rgen Hestermann wrote: >> When asking for documentation here I am often answered: Check the code. > > Yep. Correct. If you think the documentation is bad, check the code and > write it. Alan, you are welcome to modify the domunentation in the LCL > and send a patch. You can also freely update the wiki docs. There's no > problem about it and you don't have to ask for permission. > > Ondrej > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2016 19:05:24 +0200 > From: J?rgen Hestermann <juergen.hesterm...@gmx.de> > Subject: Re: [Lazarus] Suggestion for TRadioGroup documentation > To: Lazarus mailing list <lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org> > Message-ID: <5707e4d4.5020...@gmx.de> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed > > Am 2016-04-08 um 17:59 schrieb Bart: > > But even if you don't read a manual or something like that, and just > > play with the component, after just a few minutes you must have seen > > the Items property, played with it and see what it does? > > But then you only *think* you know how it works. > It maybe that some conditions exist, when things behave different. > You would never know about them if you have not read it somewhere. > It could be that you just wonder why things *sometimes* crash (or > whatever). > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2016 19:10:20 +0200 > From: J?rgen Hestermann <juergen.hesterm...@gmx.de> > Subject: Re: [Lazarus] *** GMX Spamverdacht *** Re: Suggestion for > TRadioGroup documentation > To: Lazarus mailing list <lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org> > Message-ID: <5707e5fc.1000...@gmx.de> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed > > Am 2016-04-08 um 18:04 schrieb Ondrej Pokorny: >> On 08.04.2016 18:56, J?rgen Hestermann wrote: >>> When asking for documentation here I am often answered: Check the code. >> >> Yep. Correct. If you think the documentation is bad, check the code and >> write it. Alan, you are welcome to modify the domunentation in the LCL and >> send a patch. You can also freely update the wiki docs. There's no problem >> about it and you don't have to ask for permission. > > That's a bad idea. > The person who wrote the code is the only person who knows what he > intended. > This person has to write the documentation. > > Not only that it would take a lot of (unneccessary) additional time to wade > through > foreign code (while the original coder already knew this after writing it). > Also, every bug would become part of the documentation as it is "how it is > coded". > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2016 18:18:20 +0200 > From: Ondrej Pokorny <laza...@kluug.net> > Subject: Re: [Lazarus] *** GMX Spamverdacht *** Re: Suggestion for > TRadioGroup documentation > To: Lazarus mailing list <lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org> > Message-ID: <5707d9cc.9000...@kluug.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed > > On 08.04.2016 19:10, J?rgen Hestermann wrote: >> Am 2016-04-08 um 18:04 schrieb Ondrej Pokorny: >>> On 08.04.2016 18:56, J?rgen Hestermann wrote: >>>> When asking for documentation here I am often answered: Check the code. >>> >>> Yep. Correct. If you think the documentation is bad, check the code >>> and write it. Alan, you are welcome to modify the domunentation in >>> the LCL and send a patch. You can also freely update the wiki docs. >>> There's no problem about it and you don't have to ask for permission. >> >> That's a bad idea. >> The person who wrote the code is the only person who knows what he >> intended. >> This person has to write the documentation. >> >> Not only that it would take a lot of (unneccessary) additional time to >> wade through >> foreign code (while the original coder already knew this after writing >> it). >> Also, every bug would become part of the documentation as it is "how >> it is coded". > > This doesn't apply to Alan's problem. We try to document important > things. It's not our problem that "it is not enough stressed that > functionality XYZ is not available on ZYX". We really don't have crystal > balls to know what people may think is not enough stressed. > > Ondrej > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2016 00:18:28 +0800 > From: Michael Thompson <mike.cornfl...@gmail.com> > Subject: Re: [Lazarus] *** GMX Spamverdacht *** Re: Suggestion for > TRadioGroup documentation > To: Lazarus mailing list <lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org> > Message-ID: > <CAKjh=-e3ww29blzd6ve6bt4xpq3ghfa0q9r3dsbtd+zubyj...@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > On 9 April 2016 at 01:10, J?rgen Hestermann <juergen.hesterm...@gmx.de> > wrote: > >> That's a bad idea. >> The person who wrote the code is the only person who knows what he >> intended. >> This person has to write the documentation. >> >> > That's a bad idea :-) > > Sure, *some* programmers make good documenteers, but in my experience > they're the exception, not the rule. My own documentation skills suck. > Essentially, if you think like me you'll have no problems. I'm very bad at > seeing the problem from other people's perspective. And I'm too old to > change now. I'm at the "shout louder if they didn't understand the first > time" stage of life. > > I do agree though, we're open source. We should all pull our own weight > and not expect others to pick up our own slack. It's only in a corporate > environment that I'd insist on professionals doing the documentation. > > Mike > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > <http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/pipermail/lazarus/attachments/20160409/2d3a0f2b/attachment.html> > > ------------------------------ > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Lazarus mailing list > Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org > http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus > > > End of Lazarus Digest, Vol 99, Issue 32 > *************************************** > -- Credit is the root of all evil. - AB1JX -- _______________________________________________ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
