Hello KR Netters, We have struck a deal on the KR Trainer now. This WILL happen. Actual possession is end of June. It will need a fresh condition inspection and perhaps 5 to 10 hours flown off before we start doing any training in it. I expect it to be ready for students by September.
The rules for training in experimental aircraft are simple. You can’t charge for an experimental aircraft without a waiver. However the instructor can charge for his instruction. We will be working on a waiver as soon as it’s flyable. We can’t do it for free but will keep the prices set as low as possible. This is not a business venture but a way of addressing a need in the community. Obviously this will be a learning curve so the first few students will need to be flexible. They also need to be be light weight until we get some time in it. I’ll have each student comment on the training both good and bad so we can improve it over time. A debt of gratitude goes to Michael the current owner of the airplane who has chosen to sell it to me to give the community a KR Trainer even though he has others wanting to buy it. The sole purpose of it will be to enhance safety of new pilots and owners. It may also help those wishing to sell their airplane if type specific training is available to potential buyers. Many Velocity owners won’t sell their airplane without requiring that the new owners get transition training first. I may even set up a class to build your rudder or something like that over a couple days to show those unfamiliar with fiberglass how to do it. Plus they will go home with a finished part. This started as an idea that I proposed to Mark Langford who endorsed it. We decided to put it out to the group to get your opinions and it has been well received. This is happening because of all of you. I’m excited to be addressing this issue for the KR community. I will keep you all up to date on the progress. Victor Taylor CFII 251-377-5216 > On May 6, 2021, at 07:59, victor taylor <velocityo...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > Wow, > You all have great input. First off insurance is out of the question. We > could have everyone sign a waiver to cover that. It would probably be in my > name so the external liability would be on me. That really doesn’t bother me > because I haven’t insured my airplanes since about 1999. The bottom line on > the KR Trainer is that insurance would cost more annually than the cost of > the aircraft. If it’s damaged we will assess the damage and see if it’s worth > repairing or find another airframe. There isn’t much you could do to a KR > that couldn’t be repaired fairly easily. > > The size and weight deal would be a hurdle though about all you can do is set > the rudder pedals as far forward as possible and then have blocks that mount > on them to bring them closer to the pilot. I can lower the seats a bit and > add cushions to raise short people. I am 6’ tall and 230 lbs. The KR isn’t > going to perform well but it doesn’t have to. > As far as the frequency of the training it would be about a three day program > start to finish. In Mobile we have over 300 flying days per year so we can > plan it fairly good with modern forecast. > The Question of could it be flown solo? If I train you I’ll more than likely > let you fly it solo to see the difference. Certainly more pilots than me will > fly it and my original thought was that it could be taken to fly ins for > demo, training and flight reviews. I’m sure I wouldn’t be the only one to fly > it solo. > All great comments guys and gals. Feel free to put my number in your phone > and text me before you call. Otherwise I may not answer it. > > Victor Taylor > 251-377-5216 > > >> On May 6, 2021 WEwas, at 03:34, krnet-requ...@list.krnet.org wrote: >> Q >> Send KRnet mailing list submissions to >> krnet@list.krnet.org >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via email, send a message with subject or >> body 'help' to >> krnet-requ...@list.krnet.org >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> krnet-ow...@list.krnet.org >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. Flight plan question (Global Solutions) >> 2. Re: KR Trainer (frayrothwell) >> 3. Re: KR Trainer (Robert Sauer) >> 4. Re: KR Trainer (Flesner) >> 5. Re: KR Trainer (Dave Ferguson) >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Wed, 5 May 2021 13:04:24 -0400 >> From: Global Solutions <smcdo...@kos.net> >> Subject: KR>Flight plan question >> To: KRnet <krnet@list.krnet.org> >> Message-ID: <279cae52-b6b0-a8c1-ac78-8b2773780...@kos.net> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed >> >> Other then filing a flight plan if you are passing over a country do you >> need any special paperwork or certificate if you are on your way to >> another country? >> >> I recognize that you will need proper certificate and permission in the >> country you are going to land in. >> >> Can someone advise. >> >> Regards >> >> Stan >> >> >> >> -- >> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. >> https://www.avg.com >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 2 >> Date: Wed, 05 May 2021 14:22:56 -0500 >> From: frayrothwell <frayrothw...@gmail.com> >> Subject: KR>Re: KR Trainer >> To: KRnet <krnet@list.krnet.org>, frayrothw...@gmail.com >> Message-ID: <6092f092.1c69fb81.c97ec.1...@mx.google.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 >> >> I like the idea. My kr2 is probably a year and a half from completion. I >> have been flying a 7ac champ for my tailwheel endorsement but my instructor >> is selling it this spring before I can finish. His hull insurance became >> too high to continue. A friend developed a kr2 model for my 2200 jabiru >> powered kr2 that I have been flying with xplane 11 but it needs tweeking so >> that I can fly it from the cockpit with vr. If I were to come to alabama for >> training, I would want to complete it in consecutive days.Forest >> RothwellIronton MnSent from my Sprint Samsung Galaxy S10e. >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 3 >> Date: Wed, 5 May 2021 14:12:31 -0700 >> From: Robert Sauer <rob81...@gmail.com> >> Subject: KR>Re: KR Trainer >> To: KRnet <krnet@list.krnet.org> >> Message-ID: >> <canuxmct9sa69ha3a97zi+jj5+cytj2gu197zcpqjjj0yism...@mail.gmail.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" >> >> Do you happen to be from Oconomowoc, WI ? >> >> Bob Sauer >> >>>> On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 12:31 PM frayrothwell <frayrothw...@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>> >>> I like the idea. My kr2 is probably a year and a half from completion. I >>> have been flying a 7ac champ for my tailwheel endorsement but my instructor >>> is selling it this spring before I can finish. His hull insurance became >>> too high to continue. A friend developed a kr2 model for my 2200 jabiru >>> powered kr2 that I have been flying with xplane 11 but it needs tweeking so >>> that I can fly it from the cockpit with vr. If I were to come to alabama >>> for training, I would want to complete it in consecutive days.Forest >>> RothwellIronton MnSent from my Sprint Samsung Galaxy S10e. >>> ________________________________ >>> -Please see LIST RULES and KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html >>> -Change list delivery options at >>> https://list.krnet.org/list/krnet.list.krnet.org/ Affinity List Info Board >>> -Search recent KRnet Archives at >>> https://list.krnet.org/empathy/list/krnet.list.krnet.org/ >>> -Search <https://list.krnet.org/empathy/list/krnet.list.krnet.org/-Search> >>> John Boyea's decades of archive at >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/krnet@list.krnet.org/ >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 4 >> Date: Wed, 5 May 2021 18:04:15 -0500 >> From: Flesner <fles...@frontier.com> >> Subject: KR>Re: KR Trainer >> To: victor taylor via KRnet <krnet@list.krnet.org> >> Message-ID: <b89e0dbb-45c0-f29b-e6b9-55442e348...@frontier.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed >> >>>> On 5/5/2021 8:36 AM, victor taylor via KRnet wrote: >>> Based on my conversation with Mark Langford I’m ready to do this if we have >>> the interest. >> >> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >> >> Victor, >> >> I applaud your willingness to take on such a project that probably has >> little payback for you personally. That's how things get done. >> >> I would however caution you to have all your ducks in a row before >> committing too much financially. Do you know for sure if insurance will >> be available and what will be the cost. I keep hearing from the local >> FBO's that the insurance cost on training aircraft is out of site like >> $8000 a year on a C172 and that's a "certified" aircraft. It might be >> helpful if you had some timeline for availability, height and weight >> limit for students, a close to realistic cost per hour, can the aircraft >> be rented solo after checkout or strictly dual, is the aircraft full >> dual control, etc.. What are the qualifications of the expected >> instructor and will he / she be carrying enough insurance to cover >> himself / herself? What about renters insurance. If a student puts it >> in to the weeds, who pays? Based on the answers to the above questions, >> now who's interested and what is "their" timeline. It's best to have >> the answers up front than to sort it out after the dust settles. >> >> Good luck. I hope it works out of all concerned. >> >> Larry Flesner >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 5 >> Date: Wed, 5 May 2021 19:34:13 -0400 >> From: Dave Ferguson <anglinj5special...@gmail.com> >> Subject: KR>Re: KR Trainer >> To: KRnet <krnet@list.krnet.org> >> Message-ID: >> <ca+ctq2l6z1gbalgvnncct-_uwnn41rxfnqrd0gtniizdswj...@mail.gmail.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" >> >> Great idea! Maybe this is just what the kr community needs to stimulate >> interest in our group. I'm in!!! Thanks for stepping up!!! >> >>>> On Wed, May 5, 2021, 11:57 AM Guy Maniscalco <nisca...@hotmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> I am currently building a KR2S in Northern Idaho. I do not yet have my >>> pilot's license, but as I get closer to finishing the plane I will work on >>> the license. I am not ready to commit to your proposition right now, but in >>> the near future it may be the right thing for me to do. It certainly sounds >>> enticing. >>> >>> Guy Maniscalco >>> >>> ________________________________ >>> From: mitch bushnell via KRnet <krnet@list.krnet.org> >>> Sent: Wednesday, May 5, 2021 8:47 AM >>> To: KRnet <krnet@list.krnet.org> >>> Cc: mitch bushnell <lil...@yahoo.com> >>> Subject: KR>Re: KR Trainer >>> >>> Awesome idea, I hope you guys can get this accomplished. >>> >>> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android >>> >>> >>> On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 9:24 AM, Kevin Stolhammer<kstolham...@gmail.com> >>> wrote: I will support this. There are no tailwheels available for >>> training around >>> here (eastern WA). My KR 1 is finally ready now, just completed my bfr, in >>> a 172. Two aircraft could hardly be more different... >>> Kevin Stolhammer >>> >>> On Wed, May 5, 2021, 6:36 AM victor taylor via KRnet <krnet@list.krnet.org >>>> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hello KR builders, >>>> An opportunity to put together a trainer has come up. I spoke with Mark >>>> and he is onboard with this idea. I am willing to buy and set up a KR2 >>> for >>>> training and get an exemption from the FAA so we can legally train in it. >>>> The airplane needs to be totally self sufficient to make this happen. The >>>> airplane would be based near Mobile Alabama. Myself and Jeff Scott were >>>> former Velocity Aircraft transition flight instructors and know how to >>> set >>>> up a proper transition training program. If someone buys a KR it would be >>>> different from someone who had built a KR. All in all though to properly >>>> transition most people takes between 5 and 10 hours. So probably around a >>>> thousand dollars for someone with no MR time. >>>> Based on my conversation with Mark Langford I’m ready to do this if we >>>> have the interest. >>>> The aircraft needs to make enough money to repay the debt over time while >>>> paying for its own hangar rent and maintenance. >>>> We could also give demo flights in it. Availability of training would >>> push >>>> the value of existing KR’s up and lower insurance rates so it would >>> benefit >>>> the whole community. >>>> Can I get a show of hands of those who would be interested in training, >>>> flight reviews etc? Please give your opinion even if you wouldn’t need >>> this >>>> training. >>>> >>>> Victor Taylor >>>> CFII >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On May 3, 2021, at 03:30, krnet-requ...@list.krnet.org wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Send KRnet mailing list submissions to >>>>> krnet@list.krnet.org >>>>> >>>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via email, send a message with subject or >>>>> body 'help' to >>>>> krnet-requ...@list.krnet.org >>>>> >>>>> You can reach the person managing the list at >>>>> krnet-ow...@list.krnet.org >>>>> >>>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >>>>> than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." >>>>> >>>>> Today's Topics: >>>>> >>>>> 1. Re: Jabiru 3300 engine? (Flesner) >>>>> 2. Re: Jabiru 3300 engine? (Flesner) >>>>> 3. Re: Jabiru 3300 engine? (Flesner) >>>>> 4. Re: Jabiru 3300 engine? (Jeff Scott) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> >>>>> Message: 1 >>>>> Date: Sun, 2 May 2021 07:26:34 -0500 >>>>> From: Flesner <fles...@frontier.com> >>>>> Subject: KR>Re: Jabiru 3300 engine? >>>>> To: krnet@list.krnet.org >>>>> Message-ID: <5f036c24-cf43-e297-2a09-52f628f85...@frontier.com> >>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed >>>>> >>>>>> On 5/1/2021 10:27 PM, Jeff Scott wrote: >>>>>> This is a common issue with the Jabiru. >>>>> >>>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, Jeff. I knew someone out there had the answer. >>>>> >>>>> Larry Flesner >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>> >>>>> Message: 2 >>>>> Date: Sun, 2 May 2021 07:53:01 -0500 >>>>> From: Flesner <fles...@frontier.com> >>>>> Subject: KR>Re: Jabiru 3300 engine? >>>>> To: krnet@list.krnet.org >>>>> Message-ID: <c12c7a27-f6d1-e1fa-b5e2-d8b12f369...@frontier.com> >>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed >>>>> >>>>>> On 5/1/2021 10:27 PM, Jeff Scott wrote: >>>>>> This is a common issue with the Jabiru. ex pretty easily. >>>>>> -Jeff Scott >>>>> >>>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >>>>> >>>>> Jeff, >>>>> >>>>> Do you recall the amount of MMO they were running in the 3300 that >>>>> checked well? 4 oz to 10 gallon of fuel is recommended but I run 4 oz >>>>> to 5 gallon in the 0-200 and a bit in the crankcase at oil change time. >>>>> >>>>> Larry Flesner >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>> >>>>> Message: 3 >>>>> Date: Sun, 2 May 2021 07:55:30 -0500 >>>>> From: Flesner <fles...@frontier.com> >>>>> Subject: KR>Re: Jabiru 3300 engine? >>>>> To: krnet@list.krnet.org >>>>> Message-ID: <70e5d87a-91ad-3d78-e516-da57a44f3...@frontier.com> >>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed >>>>> >>>>>> On 5/1/2021 10:27 PM, Jeff Scott wrote: >>>>>> This is a common issue with the Jabiru. >>>>>> -Jeff Scott >>>>> >>>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >>>>> >>>>> I forgot to mention that he leans aggressively, even on taxi, and his >>>>> plugs run clean with no deposits. Engine has approx 350 hours TT. >>>>> >>>>> Larry Flesner >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>> >>>>> Message: 4 >>>>> Date: Sun, 2 May 2021 15:46:32 +0200 >>>>> From: Jeff Scott <jscott.pla...@gmx.com> >>>>> Subject: KR>Re: Jabiru 3300 engine? >>>>> To: krnet@list.krnet.org >>>>> Message-ID: <trinity-66700996-f8ad-4839-b1d2-41403a6a8634-161996319211 >>>>> 2@3c-app-mailcom-bs11> >>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2021 at 7:53 AM >>>>>> From: "Flesner" <fles...@frontier.com> >>>>>> To: krnet@list.krnet.org >>>>>> Subject: KR>Re: Jabiru 3300 engine? >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 5/1/2021 10:27 PM, Jeff Scott wrote: >>>>>>> This is a common issue with the Jabiru. ex pretty easily. >>>>>>> -Jeff Scott >>>>>> >>>>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >>>>>> >>>>>> Jeff, >>>>>> >>>>>> Do you recall the amount of MMO they were running in the 3300 that >>>>>> checked well? 4 oz to 10 gallon of fuel is recommended but I run 4 oz >>>>>> to 5 gallon in the 0-200 and a bit in the crankcase at oil change >>> time. >>>>>> >>>>>> Larry Flesner >>>>> >>>>> I really don't recall. I could send him a text later today and ask, >>> but >>>> 4 oz sounds about right. MMO seems to soften the lead deposits causing >>>> them to slough more easily and lessening lead build up in the engine. >>> Lead >>>> build up in an engine is a constant process where the lead is always >>>> building and sloughing away. I once checked a fresh engine 2 hours >>> after I >>>> had overhauled it and was quite surprised by the amount of lead that had >>>> already built on top of the pistons. >>>>> >>>>> Leaning helps to avoid excess deposits, but leaded fuel will always >>>> deposit lead on any exposed surface as it burns. TetraEthylLead is used >>> to >>>> not only boost octane, but as a sacrificial metal intended to deposit >>>> between the valve face and valve seat to prevent valve face/seat erosion >>>> due to the valve and seat faces exchanging metals while hot. Newer, >>>> hardened seats and valves no longer require lead to protect them. In the >>>> Jabiru engines, it seems to cause static valve seating issues. But, if >>> you >>>> checked the engine with a boroscope, you wouldn't see any signs of uneven >>>> heating or burning of the exhaust valves, so they are not leaking >>>> dynamically as that would cause the valves to burn and fail, which would >>> be >>>> obvious with a boroscope. It's just something that shows up on a static >>>> differential compression test. So, to assure the mechanic that all is >>>> actually OK, the mechanic stakes the valves and finds the compression >>>> readings recover to normal. It's really not an actual problem with the >>>> engine itself. I suspect part of this may come from the Jabirus having >>>> small valves and light valve springs, which is actually a good thing. >>>>> >>>>> -Jeff Scott >>>>> Arkansas Ozarks >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>> >>>>> Subject: Digest Footer >>>>> >>>>> ________________________________ >>>>> Search the KRnet Archives at <A HREF=" >>>> https://list.krnet.org/empathy/list/krnet.list.krnet.org/";> KRnet >>> Empathy >>>> Archive administration </A>. >>>>> Please see LIST RULES and KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html >>> . >>>>> To change list delivery options visit the <A HREF=" >>>> https://list.krnet.org/list/krnet.list.krnet.org";> KRnet Affinity List >>>> Info Board</A> . >>>>> <A HREF="https://www.mail-archive.com/krnet@list.krnet.org/";>John >>>> Bouyea's KRnet Searchable Email Archive (recent, as well as decades >>>> old)</A> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>> >>>>> End of KRnet Digest, Vol 9, Issue 92 >>>>> ************************************ >>>> ________________________________ >>>> -Please see LIST RULES and KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html >>>> -Change list delivery options at >>>> https://list.krnet.org/list/krnet.list.krnet.org/ Affinity List Info >>> Board >>>> -Search recent KRnet Archives at >>>> https://list.krnet.org/empathy/list/krnet.list.krnet.org/ >>>> -Search < >>> https://list.krnet.org/empathy/list/krnet.list.krnet.org/-Search> >>>> John Boyea's decades of archive at >>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/krnet@list.krnet.org/ >>> ________________________________ >>> -Please see LIST RULES and KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html >>> -Change list delivery options at >>> https://list.krnet.org/list/krnet.list.krnet.org/ Affinity List Info Board >>> -Search recent KRnet Archives at >>> https://list.krnet.org/empathy/list/krnet.list.krnet.org/ >>> -Search <https://list.krnet.org/empathy/list/krnet.list.krnet.org/-Search> >>> John Boyea's decades of archive at >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/krnet@list.krnet.org/ >>> ________________________________ >>> -Please see LIST RULES and KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html >>> -Change list delivery options at >>> https://list.krnet.org/list/krnet.list.krnet.org/ Affinity List Info Board >>> -Search recent KRnet Archives at >>> https://list.krnet.org/empathy/list/krnet.list.krnet.org/ >>> -Search <https://list.krnet.org/empathy/list/krnet.list.krnet.org/-Search> >>> John Boyea's decades of archive at >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/krnet@list.krnet.org/ >>> ________________________________ >>> -Please see LIST RULES and KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html >>> -Change list delivery options at >>> https://list.krnet.org/list/krnet.list.krnet.org/ Affinity List Info Board >>> -Search recent KRnet Archives at >>> https://list.krnet.org/empathy/list/krnet.list.krnet.org/ >>> -Search <https://list.krnet.org/empathy/list/krnet.list.krnet.org/-Search> >>> John Boyea's decades of archive at >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/krnet@list.krnet.org/ >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Subject: Digest Footer >> >> ________________________________ >> Search the KRnet Archives at <A >> HREF="https://list.krnet.org/empathy/list/krnet.list.krnet.org/";> KRnet >> Empathy Archive administration </A>. >> Please see LIST RULES and KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html . >> To change list delivery options visit the <A >> HREF="https://list.krnet.org/list/krnet.list.krnet.org";> KRnet Affinity List >> Info Board</A> . >> <A HREF="https://www.mail-archive.com/krnet@list.krnet.org/";>John Bouyea's >> KRnet Searchable Email Archive (recent, as well as decades old)</A> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> End of KRnet Digest, Vol 9, Issue 96 >> ************************************ ________________________________ -Please see LIST RULES and KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html -Change list delivery options at https://list.krnet.org/list/krnet.list.krnet.org/ Affinity List Info Board -Search recent KRnet Archives at https://list.krnet.org/empathy/list/krnet.list.krnet.org/ -Search John Boyea's decades of archive at https://www.mail-archive.com/krnet@list.krnet.org/
