3410. 43 bucks William Wynne Sent from my iPad
> On Jul 17, 2019, at 12:00 PM, krnet-requ...@list.krnet.org wrote: > > Send KRnet mailing list submissions to > krnet@list.krnet.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > krnet-requ...@list.krnet.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > krnet-ow...@list.krnet.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Nason oil pressure switch (Dave McCauley) > 2. Re: Nason oil pressure switch (m...@n56ml.com) > 3. Re: Nason oil pressure switch - more info (Dave McCauley) > 4. Re: Nason oil pressure switch (Flesner) > 5. in flight emergencies (Flesner) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2019 11:33:38 -0500 > From: "Dave McCauley" <davesmccau...@comcast.net> > To: <krnet@list.krnet.org> > Subject: KR> Nason oil pressure switch > Message-ID: <001801d53bf4$3965a780$ac30f680$@comcast.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > I'm installing a Facet electric fuel pump and want to use a Nason pressure > switch to shut the fuel off if oil pressure drops to near zero. I Need to > know the part number of the Nason switch. > > > > Dave McCauley > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2019 10:36:57 -0700 > From: <m...@n56ml.com> > To: "KRnet" <krnet@list.krnet.org> > Subject: Re: KR> Nason oil pressure switch > Message-ID: > > <20190716103657.d04b1abb1c854b54fd3150a99c6879d4.065b1bc2b3....@email04.godaddy.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Dave McCauley wrote: > >> I'm installing a Facet electric fuel pump and want to use a Nason pressure >> switch to shut the fuel off if oil pressure drops to near zero. I Need to >> know the part number of the Nason switch. > > You didn't ask for my opinion, but I caution you not do this. I say > that because I've flown something like 20 miles with zero oil pressure > on the meter. I made it back to the airport, but admittedly the prop > would barely turn after I pulled onto the apron at the hangar. > Replacing the crank and main bearings made it good as new. If I'd had > that switch in place, I'd have gone down in what passes for mountains > around here, completely wooded, and there probably would have still been > a fire. > > Yes, you can put a bypass around the Nason switch as mitigation, but > will you remember that it's there in the "heat of the moment"? I > probably wouldn't. I've had several deadstick landings, and not once > did I remember to shut the fuel off at the tank. Yep, probably should > have read the checklist, but I didn't think to read that either....I was > too consumed with getting my butt back on the ground in one piece! > > Really, if your oil pressure goes to zero, you should have a big red > flashing light in front of you to tell you (or say below 15 psi), and at > that point, can't you just switch off the pump in the regular way? If > you're going to shut off the fuel, you're clearly done flying, so why > not? > > If I were going to do something like this fuel pump shutoff, I'd use the > fuel shutoff relay that was used on Rabbits/Golfs in the 70's and 80's, > and is likely still used in Golfs and other VWs today. I own several > VWs and Audis now, and I've never heard of one failing while driving. > Designed to minimize the fire during a car crash, it kills the fuel pump > when the tach signal is lost, taking the 70 psi fuel spray out of the > equation. I actually toyed with doing this, and got a relay, but never > completely warmed up to the idea. There's more on this, including a > part number, at http://www.n56ml.com/fuel/index.html , including a > schematic, near the bottom. If done as VW does it, operating the > starter provides power back to the fuel pump, as long as the key is in > the "start" position. So far I've lived without it, as I have a > completely redundant fuel pump / ignition power circuit in both KRs. > This is detailed on both the electrical system page and the fuel system > page, at http://www.n56ml.com/electrical/index.html. > > I'm still not recommending this "fuel pump relay" either, as it's just > another potential failure point that I can live without. > > Just my two cents worth, and I don't mean to rain on your parade....just > though I'd share my opinion.... > > Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL > ML "at" N56ML.com > www.N56ML.com > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2019 15:39:22 -0500 > From: "Dave McCauley" <davesmccau...@comcast.net> > To: "'KRnet'" <krnet@list.krnet.org> > Subject: Re: KR> Nason oil pressure switch - more info > Message-ID: <000001d53c16$8d6744c0$a835ce40$@comcast.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Mark, Thanks for the valuable info. My setup uses two facet rumps in series. > One pump is a > boost pump that I'll use on startup and then when the oil pressure come up, > I'll switch to the pump with the cutoff switch. If for any reason - low oil > pressure or pump failure, I can switch to the boost pump for backup. I'll > also have a backup battery. > > -----Original Message----- > From: KRnet [mailto:krnet-boun...@list.krnet.org] On Behalf Of Mark Langford > via KRnet > Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2019 12:37 PM > To: KRnet > Cc: m...@n56ml.com > Subject: Re: KR> Nason oil pressure switch > > Dave McCauley wrote: > >> I'm installing a Facet electric fuel pump and want to use a Nason pressure >> switch to shut the fuel off if oil pressure drops to near zero. I Need to >> know the part number of the Nason switch. > > You didn't ask for my opinion, but I caution you not do this. I say > that because I've flown something like 20 miles with zero oil pressure > on the meter. I made it back to the airport, but admittedly the prop > would barely turn after I pulled onto the apron at the hangar. > Replacing the crank and main bearings made it good as new. If I'd had > that switch in place, I'd have gone down in what passes for mountains > around here, completely wooded, and there probably would have still been > a fire. > > Yes, you can put a bypass around the Nason switch as mitigation, but > will you remember that it's there in the "heat of the moment"? I > probably wouldn't. I've had several deadstick landings, and not once > did I remember to shut the fuel off at the tank. Yep, probably should > have read the checklist, but I didn't think to read that either....I was > too consumed with getting my butt back on the ground in one piece! > > Really, if your oil pressure goes to zero, you should have a big red > flashing light in front of you to tell you (or say below 15 psi), and at > that point, can't you just switch off the pump in the regular way? If > you're going to shut off the fuel, you're clearly done flying, so why > not? > > If I were going to do something like this fuel pump shutoff, I'd use the > fuel shutoff relay that was used on Rabbits/Golfs in the 70's and 80's, > and is likely still used in Golfs and other VWs today. I own several > VWs and Audis now, and I've never heard of one failing while driving. > Designed to minimize the fire during a car crash, it kills the fuel pump > when the tach signal is lost, taking the 70 psi fuel spray out of the > equation. I actually toyed with doing this, and got a relay, but never > completely warmed up to the idea. There's more on this, including a > part number, at http://www.n56ml.com/fuel/index.html , including a > schematic, near the bottom. If done as VW does it, operating the > starter provides power back to the fuel pump, as long as the key is in > the "start" position. So far I've lived without it, as I have a > completely redundant fuel pump / ignition power circuit in both KRs. > This is detailed on both the electrical system page and the fuel system > page, at http://www.n56ml.com/electrical/index.html. > > I'm still not recommending this "fuel pump relay" either, as it's just > another potential failure point that I can live without. > > Just my two cents worth, and I don't mean to rain on your parade....just > though I'd share my opinion.... > > Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL > ML "at" N56ML.com > www.N56ML.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at > https://www.mail-archive.com/krnet@list.krnet.org/. > Please see LIST RULES and KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html. > see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to change > options. > To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@list.krnet.org > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2019 16:48:49 -0500 > From: Flesner <fles...@frontier.com> > To: krnet@list.krnet.org > Subject: Re: KR> Nason oil pressure switch > Message-ID: <dc39d9b6-784f-0b06-0425-085cad012...@frontier.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed > > >> I'm installing a Facet electric fuel pump and want to use a Nason pressure >> switch to shut the fuel off if oil pressure drops to near zero. >> Dave McCauley > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > I was going to respond in much the same manner as Mark.? He has much > more experience with in flight emergencies than I do so I'll just ditto > his remarks.? My only comment is I don't want anything "automatic" > cutting off my fuel supply other than the on / off switch on the panel > and the fuel shutoff valves of which I'm totally in command off.? I'm > reminded of all the comments I hear about Airbus and the like where too > many options are taken away from and override the pilot's control.? > Anything that comes between me and the on / off switch limits my options > and simply induces another possible failure point. > > The chances of you remembering to "turn on the second pump" if a system > shuts off your fuel reminds me of an incident a friend of mine had in > his RV10.? Flying low altitude in an air race his air intake was cut off > when a rubber tube collapsed.? He had two knobs on the panel and pulling > either one would have kept him in the air and running normal.? One was > carb heat and the other was intake air by-pass.? In the heat of the > moment he didn't pull either and ended up landing on a two lane paved > road.? All turned out well but he could have just as easily landed back > at the airport and correct the problem. > > I have two Facet pumps, no gravity feed, and no engine driven pump.? I > lost my main electrical buss at altitude and lost the pumps.? I noticed > the failure when all my gauges went to zero and without thinking I > turned on the backup electrical system.? I'm not sure why / how I > reacted so quickly other than I had considered that possible failure > mode and designed a backup.? I'm guessing all the thought and planning I > had put in to that system allowed my brain to react without a conscious > decision.? Whatever it was I landed safely and corrected the problem. > > As always, your results may vary............. > > Larry Flesner > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2019 18:05:00 -0500 > From: Flesner <fles...@frontier.com> > To: krnet@list.krnet.org > Subject: KR> in flight emergencies > Message-ID: <51bd280e-c260-d73c-8906-21622b80f...@frontier.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed > > > I mentioned my friend in his RV10 making an emergency landing on a > road.? I thought I'd fill you in on the rest of the story and let you > see why he used a lifetime of luck in one flight. > > When the engine slowed and lost total power he was over a heavily wooded > area with the only the road as a viable option.? He glided over or under > several power lines that he never saw, no oncoming traffic, and he > passed several cars while still in the air.? He was catching up to a > pickup truck who's driver saw him coming in his rear view mirror and > speed up to avoid a collision.? Coming to a stop he turned in to a > driveway and the wing tip clipped a mailbox.? His luck held as the > mailbox post was so rotted that it broke and didn't even leave a mark in > the wingtip paint. > > I was still in the air during the race when I heard his calls on the > radio.? After landing I jumped in my pickup truck with all my tools and > headed to his landing site.? When I arrived we pulled the cowl and > spotted the problem.? The fix was a sharp knife that I used to removed > the collapsed intake tube which was not necessary for flight.? We were > convinced that was the problem but I wanted to confirm with a fuel flow > test.? I had a calibrated fuel can in the truck and fuel flow was > normal.? Our main concern at that point in the 95 degree heat was that > local authorities would make us dis-mantel the airplane and haul it > home.? He used up his last bit of luck when the local police agreed to > block off the highway and allowed Pete and I to fly the aircraft back to > the airport.? The local resident got a new mailbox the next day and was > totally pleased. > > I told Pete that for me it was a dream come true as I had on more than > one occasion had dreams of flying an airplane off of a road and that day > I had the chance to do it for real. > > I later wrote a poem to mark the occasion and then added a chorus and > made it a song.? Pete has yet to live down his fortunate misfortune. > > Poem below.? His engine was a 540 continental and number 8 was the > finish line > > Larry Flesner > > > *The tale of race #6* > > Was a hot day in June, ?bout an hour till noon > > When race #6 took to wing > > With a clearance to go it was look out below > > And that 540 started to sing > > With his back to the sun he cleared turn #1 > > And headed for turn #2 > > It was bumpy as hell but he handled it well > > And the engine was purring like new > > With racers ahead it was onward he sped > > He would not catch the fast ones he knew > > As the miles flew by he was racing through sky > > And on down the race course he flew > > With a GPS fix he cleared turn #6 > > And he pointed the spinner to 7 > > With just one more turn and a trophy to earn > > How can you says flying?s not heaven > > But heaven must wait; there?ll be no number 8 > > As the engine went suddenly dead > > With no place to go there?s a road down below > > And a road makes a runway it?s said > > So with hand on the stick and a piloting trick > > He brings closure to this harrowing fix > > His race was complete and he claims no repeat > > With his landing on 146 > > Chorus for song > > (God gave us wings with motors and things > > So we could go fly like a bird > > It may sound bizarre but it?s safer than cars > > In spite of the rumors you?ve heard) > > ? Larry Flesner, Carterville, Illinois 6/12/2016 > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > KRnet mailing list > KRnet@list.krnet.org > http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org > > > ------------------------------ > > End of KRnet Digest, Vol 7, Issue 168 > ************************************* _______________________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at https://www.mail-archive.com/krnet@list.krnet.org/. Please see LIST RULES and KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html. see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to change options. To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@list.krnet.org
