Dear Col, You will find many guys with power plants containing oversize piston kits and/or extension set ups have had similar problems and been lucky enough to have a feasible landing place with in the 7-1 glide. Nitrated cranks in non air specific engines will save your life, as will a dual ignition and a parachute. Laziness is the killer, that and gravity. I think even Mark Langford had a crank break plus many others. Get in there and do it so we can keep talking to you. Steve Widdicombe.
-----Original Message----- From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net] On Behalf Of krnet-requ...@mylist.net Sent: Wednesday, 18 January 2006 4:01 PM To: kr...@mylist.net Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 348, Issue 26 Send KRnet mailing list submissions to kr...@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-requ...@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-ow...@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: serious information for Corvair builders (glenda mcelwee) 2. Corvair info post (Colin Rainey) 3. Carb heat (Serge VIDAL) 4. RE: Carb heat (Ron Freiberger) 5. RE: update on Flycorvair.com website (Ron Freiberger) 6. Re: Corvair info post (Mark Langford) 7. Corvair info post (Ronald R.Eason) 8. RE: Corvair info post (Ron Freiberger) 9. Heat muffs (JIM VANCE) 10. Re: Carb heat (Barry Kruyssen) 11. Re: Carb heat (Dan Heath) 12. Crankshaft Nitriding (Mark Jones) 13. Re: CorvAircraft> corvair cranks and track records (Bob Glidden) 14. Crankshafts and testing (Colin Rainey) 15. Re: Crankshafts and testing (Bob Glidden) 16. inexpensive mixture meter (Mark Langford) 17. Re: Crankshafts and testing (Kenneth Wiltrout) 18. Re: Corvair info post (Mark Langford) 19. improved EIS data plot (Mark Langford) 20. Come and get it! (Steve Bray) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 00:59:37 -0800 (PST) From: glenda mcelwee <n5...@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: KR> serious information for Corvair builders To: KRnet <kr...@mylist.net> Message-ID: <20060117085937.16903.qm...@web36912.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Much of the post from William is a recap of old posts so all the information is there. If the information keeps us all safer as we fly it is great news. To chang out the crank will not take more than a weekend. It's much cheaper than maintance AD's on aircraft engines. Glenda McElwee Oscar Zuniga <taildr...@hotmail.com> wrote: Those who are building or flying Corvair engines should read William's latest technical report on the crankshaft, at http://www.flycorvair.com/crankissues.html It's long and the news isn't great, but if you're planning to fly behind a Corvair, better take a look. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildr...@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html --------------------------------- Yahoo! Photos Showcase holiday pictures in hardcover Photo Books. You design it and well bind it! ------------------------------ Message: 2 List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 09:45:38 -0500 From: "Colin Rainey" <brokerpilot9...@earthlink.net> Subject: KR> Corvair info post To: kr...@mylist.net Message-ID: <410-220061217144538...@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Glenda and Oscar I do not want to sound out of line, and I am obviously not privy to all the information gathered at the testing site. However, I find it alittle pre-mature to declare all non-nitrided cranks as having a problem simply because the only example of that did not have a crack in it. Bill Clapp's did not either, but WW's language was such that he was going to examine it until he found one. The test appears from a distance to be more of an attempt to support the need for nitriding, then to prove that it is truly necessary. Personally, before I go to the trouble to teardown my engine, I would want to see several more examples of cranks run for similar times like Bill's and have no damage, while more of the cranks without showing signs. To draw the conclusion that nitriding will correct the cracking tendency at this point is premature. IMHO for it to be scientific, the test should have been performed with (5) 2700cc cranks nitrided examined, and (5) 2700cc cranks w/o nitriding examined for similar use engines and those results compared. The 3100cc engine is a throw away invalid, because rods and psitons are different which contaminate the accuracy of the information. I have nothing against safety or being cautious, but drawing conclusions this way only means the possibility of unnecessary work being done on engines, and the real problem may not have been found. I do not deny the importance of the testing, but feel the results lack credibility at this time to draw the conclusions that they have. More factors must be considered in order to properly prevent this from occurring with other engines. >From the (4) 2700cc engines, 50% cracked and 50% did not. Why? What was the same about them, and what was different? How were they used differently or the same? What was the fuel type used, base timing settings, carbs, props, compression ratio? How were the 2 engines used that did not crack vs. the 2 that did suffer cracks? We could all change out our cranks for billet steel racing cranks and still develop cracks in them if the true cause of the cracks is not determined. Until you establish the control group correctly, you are just guessing.... Colin Rainey First National Mortgage Sources Lending Solutions in All 50 States 386-673-6814 office 407-739-0834 cell brokerpilot9...@earthlink.net ------------------------------ Message: 3 List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 16:18:55 +0100 From: Serge VIDAL <serge.vi...@sagem.com> Subject: KR> Carb heat To: brokerpilot9...@earthlink.net, KRnet <kr...@mylist.net> Message-ID: <of791e54b7.30583c9a-onc12570f9.00528f4f-c12570f9.00542...@sagem.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I changed my mind about the design of my carb heat system, after I made a Google seach on the subject. I needed to do some research, because although I have seen plenty information on how to make a carb air box, I could never figure out how to get the hot air source from the exhaust. This is why I considered taking air from the cylinders area instead. Well, the Google search indicated a very interesting Web page with plenty pictures, and I saw the light. The pictures show a very simple way to make a box around an exhaust section by simply folding a sheet of stailess steel the fight way: making an octagon or decagon section. Brilliant,, simple, effective, and good looking. Oh, by the way,unsurprisingly, the page's author is a guy called Mark Langford. I will add my contribution to the subject: Mark, you battled to find a spring that would fill the box and help with the heat transfer. My solution will be to close the box both sides, let the air in through plenty little holes. For a spring, I will use stainless steel scrubs (sold in France in any convenience store, that are use to scrub pots and pans), and pack them inside the box before I close it. Serge Vidal KR2 "Kilimanjaro Cloud" Paris, France. ------------------------------ Message: 4 List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 11:38:00 -0500 From: "Ron Freiberger" <ronandmar...@earthlink.net> Subject: RE: KR> Carb heat To: "'KRnet'" <kr...@mylist.net> Message-ID: <001201c61b84$65a960b0$6400a8c0@Disorganized> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Serge said... Mark, you battled to find a spring that would fill the box and help with the heat transfer. My solution will be to close the box both sides, let the air in through plenty little holes. For a spring, I will use stainless steel scrubs (sold in France in any convenience store, that are use to scrub pots and pans), and pack them inside the box before I close it. Serge, I think you're overdoing it... You'll insulate the exhaust pipe too much, and probably get excessively hot air. The "screen door spring is old practice, and should be easy to do. Stretch it, wrap it, tie with a bit of stainless safety wire, and go fly. Most people use aluminum for the outer wrap, and it's easy to do. Ron Freiberger mail to ronandmar...@earthlink.net ------------------------------ Message: 5 List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 11:41:04 -0500 From: "Ron Freiberger" <ronandmar...@earthlink.net> Subject: RE: KR> update on Flycorvair.com website To: "'KRnet'" <kr...@mylist.net> Message-ID: <001301c61b84$d21ae9d0$6400a8c0@Disorganized> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" What are "others" saying about Oscar's timely posts, other than "Thanks"? Ron Freiberger mail to ronandmar...@earthlink.net Thanks Oscar and no matter what others may say regarding your timely posts, keep it up as some of us don't have the time to constantly check William's site. Doug Rupert ------------------------------ Message: 6 List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 10:40:21 -0600 From: "Mark Langford" <n5...@hiwaay.net> Subject: Re: KR> Corvair info post To: "KRnet" <kr...@mylist.net> Message-ID: <00ca01c61b84$b66fa180$d004a...@net.tbe.com> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Colin Rainy wrote: > IMHO for it to be scientific, the test should have been performed with (5) > 2700cc cranks nitrided examined, and (5) 2700cc cranks w/o nitriding > examined for similar use engines and those results compared. The 3100cc > engine is a throw away invalid, because rods and psitons are different > which contaminate the accuracy of the information. >>From the (4) 2700cc engines, 50% cracked and 50% did not. Why? What was >>the same about them, and what was different? > How were they used differently or the same? What was the fuel type used, > base timing settings, carbs, props, compression ratio? How were the 2 > engines used > that did not crack vs. the 2 that did suffer cracks? Having read the comments of engine experts (aircraft, heavy equipment, etc) in the field who's first question was "are you sure that crank was nitrided" (see http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/corvair/flexplate/problem.html ) is all I need to know. It's considered standard practice in industries in which maximum crankshaft longevity is expected. It's guaranteed insurance of significantly more fatigue resistance for the crank. The reason William didn't use 5 cranks of either type is because he doesn't HAVE 5 nitrided cranks to check, and it would be irresponsible to sit around waiting for them. But seeing 7-8 cracked or broken cranks (most of them in KRs) in the last year is enough for any logical thinker to conclude that there is a problem that needs fixing, and a $50 nitride job is a pretty good step in the right direction. If he kept quiet on this issue it would just be a matter of time before he had a broken crank that didn't just result in a forced landing and a trashed engine, but would involve totalled airplanes and/or deceased friends... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford email to N56ML "at" hiwaay.net ------------------------------ Message: 7 List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 10:54:22 -0600 From: "Ronald R.Eason" <r...@jrl-engineering.com> Subject: KR> Corvair info post To: <brokerpilot9...@earthlink.net>, "'KRnet'" <kr...@mylist.net> Message-ID: <002f01c61b86$aaa86c90$6501a8c0@CADENGINEERING> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I have been reading some of these emails with interest from an engineer stand point and find that flight testing is laborious way to test. Why not simply test the cranks in a physical lab where gradual eccentric dynamic loads can be placed on the shafts and record loaded failure? Some fan shafts geometries have critical harmonic RPM's that will cause failure if the shaft rotates at that RPM for extended time periods. The solution is to stay out of this RPM range i.e. above or below. I think the problem may be fatigue failure due to critical harmonic loading caused by the prop. This would require solids modeling the shaft and stress analyzing. When I worked for John Deere I learned that Deere folks stress relieved all rotating parts in their engines after each machining operation and nitrating all bearing assemblies. The process was similar to the one explained at this web site. http://www.440source.com/crankshafts.htm Ronald R. Eason Sr. President / CEO Ph: 816-468-4091 Fax: 816-468-5465 http://www.jrl-engineering.com Our Attitude Makes The Difference! -----Original Message----- From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net] On Behalf Of Colin Rainey Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 8:46 AM To: kr...@mylist.net Subject: KR> Corvair info post Glenda and Oscar I do not want to sound out of line, and I am obviously not privy to all the information gathered at the testing site. However, I find it alittle pre-mature to declare all non-nitrided cranks as having a problem simply because the only example of that did not have a crack in it. Bill Clapp's did not either, but WW's language was such that he was going to examine it until he found one. The test appears from a distance to be more of an attempt to support the need for nitriding, then to prove that it is truly necessary. Personally, before I go to the trouble to teardown my engine, I would want to see several more examples of cranks run for similar times like Bill's and have no damage, while more of the cranks without showing signs. To draw the conclusion that nitriding will correct the cracking tendency at this point is premature. IMHO for it to be scientific, the test should have been performed with (5) 2700cc cranks nitrided examined, and (5) 2700cc cranks w/o nitriding examined for similar use engines and those results compared. The 3100cc engine is a throw away invalid, because rods and psitons are different which contaminate the accuracy of the information. I have nothing against safety or being cautious, but drawing conclusions this way only means the possibility of unnecessary work being done on engines, and the real problem may not have been found. I do not deny the importance of the testing, but feel the results lack credibility at this time to draw the conclusions that they have. More factors must be considered in order to properly prevent this from occurring with other engines. >From the (4) 2700cc engines, 50% cracked and 50% did not. Why? What was the same about them, and what was different? How were they used differently or the same? What was the fuel type used, base timing settings, carbs, props, compression ratio? How were the 2 engines used that did not crack vs. the 2 that did suffer cracks? We could all change out our cranks for billet steel racing cranks and still develop cracks in them if the true cause of the cracks is not determined. Until you establish the control group correctly, you are just guessing.... Colin Rainey First National Mortgage Sources Lending Solutions in All 50 States 386-673-6814 office 407-739-0834 cell brokerpilot9...@earthlink.net _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 8 List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 11:59:15 -0500 From: "Ron Freiberger" <ronandmar...@earthlink.net> Subject: RE: KR> Corvair info post To: "'KRnet'" <kr...@mylist.net> Message-ID: <002501c61b87$5c6b5230$6400a8c0@Disorganized> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Mark, well said. From my engineering days, I was so frustrated by Product Assurance types that always wanted to wait for more databefore accepting the obvious.. Our "experimental " category is supposed to be a learning process, using past good practices wherever possible. Nitriding cranks is a perfect example. I had a Jodel D-11 with and engine older than I was (that's old). The new buyer had the crank ground and polished, (and it'll bet not nitrided). It failed very shortly after the "automotive" overhaul, and the aircraft was destroyed landing in a cornfield. It would be interesting to know if it's acceptable practice to yellow tag a reground crankshaft without nitriding. W Wynne certainly makes a real effort to understand and report. Thanks, William. Ron Freiberger mail to ronandmar...@earthlink.net EAA Tech Counselor #4125 Mark said; Having read the comments of engine experts (aircraft, heavy equipment, etc) in the field who's first question was "are you sure that crank was nitrided" (see http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/corvair/flexplate/problem.html ) is all I need to know. It's considered standard practice in industries in which maximum crankshaft longevity is expected. It's guaranteed insurance of significantly more fatigue resistance for the crank. The reason William didn't use 5 cranks of either type is because he doesn't HAVE 5 nitrided cranks to check, and it would be irresponsible to sit around waiting for them. But seeing 7-8 cracked or broken cranks (most of them in KRs) in the last year is enough for any logical thinker to conclude that there is a problem that needs fixing, and a $50 nitride job is a pretty good step in the right direction. If he kept quiet on this issue it would just be a matter of time before he had a broken crank that didn't just result in a forced landing and a trashed engine, but would involve totalled airplanes and/or deceased friends... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford email to N56ML "at" hiwaay.net _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 9 List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 14:22:39 -0600 From: "JIM VANCE" <va...@hbcomm.net> Subject: KR> Heat muffs To: "krnet" <kr...@mylist.net> Message-ID: <001601c61ba3$c35e6380$6a88f53f@Vance> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" To increase the amount of hot surface area in the heat muff, I used an ordinary screen door spring. It was about 18 inches long when I bought it. I put one end in the vise and stretched it out to about 12 feet. I then spiraled it around a piece of one inch o.d. pipe. I heated it with my propane torch until the shiny galvanized coating turned gray. That removed the temper from the spring. It was then very easy to wrap around the exhaust pipe. I secured it at each end with stainless steel wire. My heat muffs are tear drop shaped in cross section. I joined the small edge with piano hinge. The heater hose to the carburetor attaches to one end. The reason for making the muff easily removable is that it must be removed for inspection, since it would be a most dangerous place for cracks to occur. I have pictures if anyone would be interested. Jim Vance va...@hbcomm.net ------------------------------ Message: 10 List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 07:58:23 +1000 From: "Barry Kruyssen" <k...@bigpond.com> Subject: Re: KR> Carb heat To: "KRnet" <kr...@mylist.net> Message-ID: <00ad01c61bb1$23fe0850$5600a...@technologyonecorp.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi Serge, The stainless steel scrubs may break up over time and go through your engine. I would stay with the spring idear or just roll stainless wire around dowle to build your own spring. regards Barry Kruyssen Cairns, Australia RAA 19-3873 k...@bigpond.com http://www.users.bigpond.com/kr2/kr2.htm ----- Original Message ----- I will add my contribution to the subject: Mark, you battled to find a spring that would fill the box and help with the heat transfer. My solution will be to close the box both sides, let the air in through plenty little holes. For a spring, I will use stainless steel scrubs (sold in France in any convenience store, that are use to scrub pots and pans), and pack them inside the box before I close it. Serge Vidal KR2 "Kilimanjaro Cloud" Paris, France. ------------------------------ Message: 11 List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 17:56:56 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "Dan Heath" <da...@alltel.net> Subject: Re: KR> Carb heat To: <kr...@mylist.net> Message-ID: <43CD7638.000001.03044@DANHOMECOMPUTER> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Carb heat for those of you who have not seen it. A similar way of doing it. http://krbuilder.org/FirewallForward/index.html See N64KR at http://KRBuilder.org - Then click on the pics See you in Mt. Vernon - 2006 - KR Gathering There is a time for building and a time for FLYING and the time for building is OVER. Daniel R. Heath - Lexington, SC -------Original Message------- I would stay with the spring idear or just roll stainless wire around dowle to build your own spring. My solution will be to close the box both sides, let the air in through plenty little holes. ------------------------------ Message: 12 List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 19:05:10 -0600 From: "Mark Jones" <flyk...@wi.rr.com> Subject: KR> Crankshaft Nitriding To: "KR Net" <kr...@mylist.net>, "Corvaircraft" <corvaircr...@mylist.net> Message-ID: <005201c61bcb$3b1cebe0$6401a...@wi.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I have quietly sat back and listened to all of you discuss this issue. No one really knows why or how or anything else, except the facts we have now. Just keep this in mind.....It is your life that is in most danger coupled with any passengers you may carry and then there are the people on the ground you could take out if you go down. But what about your loved ones who are affected by your loss, losses. You guys and gals are intelligent people. If you were not, then you could not build an airplane. Why would any of you take such a risk? Why would you not spend a few extra dollars to make your plane safer whether it is a Piet or a high performance 250 mph plane. Why would you not spend a few extra hours on the engine to make it more bullet proof? Those of you who are taking this seriously and doing the nitriding as recommended, I applaud you!!!!!!! Those who are ignoring the findings and are not concerned about nitriding well, may God be with you!!!!!!! And please don't fly over my house, at least while my family is at home. Kind of puts it in perspective doesn't it? Personally, I love life and am enjoying doing what I love to do. When William called and asked for my crank, I had no plans of nitriding. Thank God I let him talk me into it since mine was cracked. And by the way, I flew gently those 71 hours and never turned it over 3150 rpm. Also, thanks to William asking for my crank, I discovered a faulty harmonic balancer during the teardown which also would have caused a forced landing. That's two things I am proud to say William saved me from. Now, the next time I go fly, I will be just that much more confident in my airplane as being that much safer. Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA E-mail me at flyk...@wi.rr.com Visit my NEW KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at www.flykr2s.com ------------------------------ Message: 13 List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 20:05:44 -0500 From: "Bob Glidden" <glid...@ccrtc.com> Subject: KR> Re: CorvAircraft> corvair cranks and track records To: "KRnet" <kr...@mylist.net>, "Corvair engines for homebuilt aircraft" <corvaircr...@mylist.net> Message-ID: <00cd01c61bcb$4faf08e0$6401a8c0@ADMINISTRATOR> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original If you stop and think about it.WW's opinion is just that.You do not have to read his manual or buy conversion parts from him or watch his tapes.Many of us choose to listen to him because he doe's a lot of the leg work that we don't have time to do(family,church,kids basketball,flying,fly-ins) or what ever.$50.00 is pretty cheap insurance,but this is experimental aviation and if you don't believe that getting your crank nitrided is necessary,then that is your opinion.I am not convinced that grinding then under with the wrong radius is not more of a factor then the issue of nitiding,but that is my opinion and again $50.00 is cheap insurance.I just spent $90.00on a Turn & Bank indicator,I could fly without it,but feel better having it....Just my thought,I'm glad I was not in Mark Langfords position and found out the hard way... Bob Glidden Eminence,Indiana KR2S N181FW (building) Corvair 110 glid...@ccrtc.com ------------------------------ Message: 14 List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 22:02:33 -0500 From: "Colin Rainey" <brokerpilot9...@earthlink.net> Subject: KR> Crankshafts and testing To: kr...@mylist.net Message-ID: <410-2200613183233...@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Mark and Mark and netters I agree whole heartedly. And if I find that the cranksahft that WW sold me is NOT nitrided I will have it nitrided. What I should have said is that it is premature to draw conclusions that nitriding will do anything to address the broken crankshafts in OUR CASES. If nitriding is known for adding durability to a crank then it is a good thing regardless, I agree. But I believe there is ALOT more investigating to be done on this issue, then just treat the cranks and re-install and fly. That is all I wanted to make clear. With the volume of knowledge and numbers of engines this group has collectively, a collaboration should be able to yield a great deal of useful information in this pursuit that all will benefit by, including WW. I would like to stimulate all of us to work together to go beyond where WW is now with this and SOLVE this issue, not wait on him to discover it. By WW's words himself the problem did not begin until after 2004 when his version engines began to become widely used. What has been changed from the way they were previously used in airplanes prior to 2004? A good starting point for understanding where the problem is, is to look at the way the engines were installed and used prior to WW, and compare to our engines now. Then we know what needs to be tested like Ron Eason suggested, and we can save alot of time and energy, and money. Like Ron said, maybe the way Bill Clapp and Steve Makish flew their engines has much more of a factor on the cracks then the machining. Yes we all could benefit from better cranks, but we should not stop there. We need to find out for sure why these crankshafts are/were cracked. That is my main point, take it for what it is worth... Colin Rainey First National Mortgage Sources Lending Solutions in All 50 States 386-673-6814 office 407-739-0834 cell brokerpilot9...@earthlink.net ------------------------------ Message: 15 List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 22:08:31 -0500 From: "Bob Glidden" <glid...@ccrtc.com> Subject: Re: KR> Crankshafts and testing To: <brokerpilot9...@earthlink.net>, "KRnet" <kr...@mylist.net> Message-ID: <013a01c61bdc$7632e5c0$6401a8c0@ADMINISTRATOR> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Bob Glidden Eminence,Indiana KR2S N181FW (building) Corvair 110 glid...@ccrtc.com Like Ron said, maybe the way Bill Clapp and Steve > Makish flew their engines has much more of a factor on the cracks then the > machining. I don't know about Steve,but I have seen Bill fly several times and he gets his moneys worth out of that corvair. ------------------------------ Message: 16 List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 21:12:39 -0600 From: "Mark Langford" <n5...@hiwaay.net> Subject: KR> inexpensive mixture meter To: "Corvair engines for homebuilt aircraft" <corvaircr...@mylist.net>, "KRnet" <kr...@mylist.net> Message-ID: <004201c61bdd$0a22c110$2802a8c0@2600xp> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original NetHeads, I've been flying with an inexpensive mixture meter for 120 hours now, so I guess you could call it "flight tested". I consider this thing to be indispensible, so I figured some of you guys might appreciate it too. I really can't imagine flying without it. See http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/corvair/o2meter/ for details. I have my GPS programmed for Fall Creek Falls State Park, Tennessee. Tomorrow afternoon I plan to turn a 3 hour drive into a half hour flight over some really cool waterfalls in the Tennessee mountains... Mark Langford, Harvest, AL see homebuilt airplane at http://www.N56ML.com email to N56ML "at" hiwaay.net ------------------------------ Message: 17 List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 22:18:44 -0500 From: "Kenneth Wiltrout" <kwiltrout1...@verizon.net> Subject: Re: KR> Crankshafts and testing To: "KRnet" <kr...@mylist.net> Message-ID: <000601c61bdd$e3def540$2f01a8c0@gatewayzk8r233> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original I've always wondered why some pilots with a VW that is designed to fly at 3200 rpm cruise it well beyond that. The same can be said for Vairs as well. Over rev any engine for an extended period of time and your flirting with disaster. My honest cruise at 3200 is 140 mph, if I wanna stretch the truth and tell people it cruises close to 150 then I should tell them I'm running it WOT as well. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Glidden" <glid...@ccrtc.com> To: <brokerpilot9...@earthlink.net>; "KRnet" <kr...@mylist.net> Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 10:08 PM Subject: Re: KR> Crankshafts and testing > > Bob Glidden > Eminence,Indiana > KR2S N181FW (building) > Corvair 110 > glid...@ccrtc.com > > > > Like Ron said, maybe the way Bill Clapp and Steve >> Makish flew their engines has much more of a factor on the cracks then >> the >> machining. > > I don't know about Steve,but I have seen Bill fly several times and he > gets > his moneys worth out of that corvair. > > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > ------------------------------ Message: 18 List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 21:42:37 -0600 From: "Mark Langford" <n5...@hiwaay.net> Subject: Re: KR> Corvair info post To: "KRnet" <kr...@mylist.net> Message-ID: <008101c61be1$39be4440$2802a8c0@2600xp> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Ron Eason wrote: >I have been reading some of these emails with interest from an engineer > stand point and find that flight testing is laborious way to test. > Why not simply test the cranks in a physical lab where gradual eccentric > dynamic loads can be placed on the shafts and record loaded failure? Do you have any idea how expensive this "simple test" would be? And it still would not come close to replicating the real-world environment of an airplane in flight. > Some fan shafts geometries have critical harmonic RPM's that will cause > failure if the shaft rotates at that RPM for extended time periods. The > solution is to stay out of this RPM range i.e. above or below. I think the > problem may be fatigue failure due to critical harmonic loading caused by > the prop. This would require solids modeling the shaft and stress > analyzing. I'm a CAD kinda guy, and use solid modeling to solve a lot of my problems before they ever crop up. We even solid modeled our house before we built it....but solid modeling a crankshaft and replicating the dynamic forces and their reactions on an entire engine/propeller system installed on an airplane are two different things. In my view, engines are simply too complicated to model all of the complex dynamics of all the reciprocating and rotating parts, at least with software mere mortals can afford (even Nastran/Patran). We have Nastran/Patran at work, and if I thought there was a prayer of getting useful info out of it, I'd have done it already. Ford and GM may have something like that, but even those guys have to do real world testing on a new engine and test and fine tune it after prototyping... Mark Langford, Harvest, AL see homebuilt airplane at http://www.N56ML.com email to N56ML "at" hiwaay.net ------------------------------ Message: 19 List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 21:55:23 -0600 From: "Mark Langford" <n5...@hiwaay.net> Subject: KR> improved EIS data plot To: "KRnet" <kr...@mylist.net> Message-ID: <000701c61be3$03653b90$2802a8c0@2600xp> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Now that Bob Lee has educated me on Excel 2 axis plotting, I've managed to make the recent trip's EIS data make a little more sense. See http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/flights/jan2006farm/ for a new plot that is easier to read (maybe), or at least has more information on it... Mark Langford, Harvest, AL see homebuilt airplane at http://www.N56ML.com email to N56ML "at" hiwaay.net ------------------------------ Message: 20 List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 22:01:46 -0600 From: "Steve Bray" <rsb...@hotmail.com> Subject: KR> Come and get it! To: kr...@mylist.net Message-ID: <bay13-f116de8dce8b6fa521a2dc8c6...@phx.gbl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" -------------- next part -------------- ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: clyde hubbart <chubb...@mshs.org> List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org Date: Jan 9, 2006 9:15 AM Subject: Come and get it! To: rsb...@gmail.com Steve, I may have already sent this by mistake before I was finished with it, so please bear with me(I HATE COMPUTERS) Hi Steve, We had our monthly EAA meeting yesterday, thought I would take a minute and update you to what is going on around here. We decided to continue our regular meetings the second Sunday of each month at 2pm and starting this month we are going to have another informal meeting at noon the last Saturday of each month. For those that driving in we are located 5 miles east of the Jonesboro airport (JBR) on highway 18, for those flying in the GPS cord. are N35 49.49', W90 32.90', please monitor and use 122.9 for our traffic. Our airstrip is ? mile grass north/south orientation. Now here is the point of interest for you and all of your friends and their buddies. We will be cooking lunch, nothing fancy, just hamburgers, hot dogs, brats, and polish sausage with all the trimmings and drink for $5.00 a head, all you can eat. If you fly-in to the meeting the PILOT EATS FREE, no dual piloted aircraft please. We have decided to do this to see if we can spark an interaction between chapters, friends or just plain flyers of any type of aircraft. You do not have to be an EAA member or a member of Chapter 437 to attend, EVERYONE IS WELCOME, if you like airplanes come eat with us. Please spread this around, yours truly will be the chef of this extravaganza, so don't make me do all this cooking for nothing. Clyde ps. Please send this to anyone you might think would be interested, I personally would love to have to send the chapter president back to the store because we don't have enough food. ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 348, Issue 26 **************************************
