Some great comments on stall/ spin recovery. Yes ...I did mean wings level with rudder. OOPS! As far as altitudes go I just meant I felt awfully small with an 18 ft span at that height. You know us "flat landers'! 20 ' and inches ain' much different though I do agree in MOST cases altitude is your friend though during a cockpit firr in a Cessna I was glad I was closer to terra firma. I usually respond off site but once in a while....by the way good to hear from you Dan. I am hoping to fly 86 RC to the gathering but if not....comnercial jet here we come!