Hello David. David Nind wrote:
[…] > > I would not classify it as 'spyware', no more so than any other cookies set > by websites. > > What information does Google Analytics collect? Google Analytics is > implemented through a cookie which is placed on the visitor's > computer along with code in the webpage which collects visitor data and > relays it to Google's servers for processing. It generally collects: > > - IP addresses > - Geographical location of the IP address > - Pages visited > - How the visitor arrived at the webpage > - Computer information, such as the operating system, screen size, > browser browser being used. Together with the data collected on all other Google-"enhanced" websites (embedding Google analytics, Google+1, Google ads, googleapis, Youtube clips etc.) and the data generated by "standalone" enduser products like all flavours of Google search, Google Maps/ Streetview, Gmail, Google+, Google checkout, Youtube, Blogger.com, Android and all the other things Google does, this data may represent, depending on your online behaviour, your complete life on the internet and even more. While I can understand that people may find the term spyware harsh, from my point of view it is not inappropriate. Google watches a lot of things we do on the internet and I am not comfortable with that. It's not only Google of course, I am very concerned with how much things are outsourced to third parties nowadays, giving them access to user data and power over our own websites, blogs etc. It sure makes things easier for webmasters, gives them new tools, reduces bandwidth and so on, but it is done on the cost of the user's privacy. > > That does not mean that there are not any privacy issues. See also > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Analytics#Privacy_issues for > information on some of these. Thanks for pointing that out. > > For people concerned about privacy there are options to block it (search > Google for more options 8-' ): > http://www.brighthub.com/guides/google-analytics.aspx Personally I block third party scripts, but that is no option for the general public. I get frequently told that my computer is not usable to browse the web because nothing works ;) I think it is a problem that most people don't even know things like Google Anaylitics are used, or if they do, they have no idea what that means and disregard it because it's "too technical". From a user perspective it would be fair to ask people to actively opt in to such things to turn this situation around and have some kind of informed consent. > > minus the "give all your data to an >> evil corporation"-part -- if you think analysing Koha users is >> neccessary. >> > > I'm not in the Google is an "evil corporation" camp, and think this is a > more extreme view. There is the http://www.dataliberation.org/ if you are > concerned about Google's dominance and practices. As far as I understand, dataliberation.org is about transporting your data from or to Google, not about getting your data "out" like in "delete it"? > > The purpose of web analytics, whatever the tool, is not analysing users per > se. It is about how people are using your website, whether it is helping > you achieve your goals, finding out what they are looking at and for, how > to improve it and make it a better experience. I would be happy to do this > if the data was available, from whatever source. I think there are several problems here from a user perspective. 1. As a user, I may not want you to do that without my consent. I generally may not want to be watched using a website and especially not if this data is stored and used by a third party that neither of us has control over and perhaps even without me knowing that they are involved at all. 2. Your goal may be making the website better and you may not be interested in the data of the single user. Google definitely IS interested in that. Their goal is to connect as much data as possible to one account. Again, neither one of us has any saying about what they are going to do with that data, who else will be using it now or in the future, how long it will be stored and so on. > > I would appreciate a discussion about the why and personally prefer >> these things to disappear so I am able to send people to the >> community website in good conscience. >> > > The Koha community uses free software for everything I can see at > koha-community.org: Wordpress for the website, Wikimedia for the wiki, > Bugzilla for bug (and feature) tracking, Git for revision control, Mailman > for mailing lists, Jenkins for continuous integration testing, Linux as the > operating system that Koha runs on, Perl and all the associated modules, > translation using Pootle, etc. > > Koha community members come from across the spectrum in terms of awareness > of free software. Many are very strong free software supporters. There are > also probably many community members who don't have such strong views, but > use and contribute to Koha because it is great software, has many benefits > for them and their organisation, and is free. I would imagine many also use > non-free software, whether by choice or because of the policies of the > organisations they work for. > > Koha offers a great free software product and community. It is developed in > a very open and transparent way and reflects the best aspects of free > software, in the truest sense. > > Promoting your website (any website, not just for free software projects) > and understanding how your 'customers' use it are important parts of having > a web presence, especially for a world-wide community. The Google webmaster > tools used (Google Analytics; G+ - for promoting Koha, a good thing since > there is often confusion between koha-community.org and the fork; Google > search - searching across the koha-community.org sites e.g. site, wiki, > manual, mailing lists, irc logs etc.) all play a useful part in this, > whether free software or not. I do understand the fork problem. I have no insight into how much the use of G+1 can help with that but I suppose Google Analytics has nothing to do with that? I would not want to tell people what kind of licenses the software they use is allowed to have. I can't use free software whenever I want to, even though I would prefer to do so. Google Analytics is different though, because in this case it's not just that the Koha website uses a non-free software, but the Koha website allows a non-free software to use me (my data) and I think that should be considered something else than somebody using a non-free tool locally to build or host a website. […] > Should the Koha community have a privacy statement to address any concerns > about privacy? I'm not sure if one is required. I'm also not sure how easy > it would be to do, as community members come from countries with different > privacy laws, requirements and cultures. It would require someone to > propose it as an RFC on the wiki, to develop one, and get approval a > general IRC meeting ( > http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/General_IRC_meeting,_13_June_2012). I think in Germany it is at least considered safer to have a privacy statement, the law seems not to cover such problems yet. Personally I think the statement is not enough, as stated before. To make that clear, I do not think that the Koha website or it's maintainers really want to spy on me or others. Ever since I started working with Koha I have experienced a very friendly, open and nice community and I did not want to imply bad intentions by anyone, I am sorry if I gave that impression. There are free alternatives (like the already mentioned Piwik that seems to be used in the site already) that could be used instead of services of third parties. If people think using analyzing software on the Koha website is neccessary then I would prefer a free software that stores data only locally and does not send anything to a third party we cannot control. - Mirko _______________________________________________ Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
