Hi Brian, If you double-click into the left channel you’ll see Q101. If you double-click into the right, you’ll see Q201. So it looks like there are two. But if you edit either one it goes back to a single file so both will be changed.
(To be honest I’ve never used this feature, so I’m not 100% sure the above is correct. But I’m pretty sure.) My guess is there’s a tutorial somewhere; perhaps Wayne or JP could comment? Cheers, Jeff. > On 22 Nov 2019, at 19:42, Brian <lotha...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Hi Jeff, > > Thanks for helping me understand this. So how would someone looking at the > schematic know that this one symbol represents both Q101 and Q201? For that > matter, if there's some instructions or a tutorial about creating a situation > like this (one schematic drawing representing multiple instances of the > subcircuit on the pcb), I'd be interested to learn it. I have a couple > projects in the pipeline where I might find this feature useful; in the past, > I've manually copy/pasted sections of a schematic to repeat subcircuits. > > Thanks, > -Brian > > On 11/22/19 2:37 PM, Jeff Young wrote: >> Hi Brian, >> >> Imagine you’re doing an audio amplifier. Your main schematic sheet has 4 >> subsheets: PSU, control logic, left channel and right channel. Both left >> channel and right channel point to the same sub-page. So there’s a single >> schematic symbol for each part in the left & right channel, which gets >> annotated as two different references (ie: Q101 and Q201), and attached to >> two different footprints. >> >> Cheers, >> Jeff. >> >>> On 22 Nov 2019, at 19:29, Brian <lotha...@gmail.com >>> <mailto:lotha...@gmail.com>> wrote: >>> >>> From the peanut gallery: >>> >>> Can someone tell me an example use-case for a single schematic symbol >>> corresponding to multiple board entities within a single project? >>> >>> As perhaps a rather naïve PCB designer, it seems like mostly a bad idea to >>> me to have anything other than 1:1. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> -Brian Henning >>> >>>> On Nov 22, 2019, at 1:44 PM, Brian Piccioni <br...@documenteddesigns.com >>>> <mailto:br...@documenteddesigns.com>> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> Wayne >>>> >>>> I thought I would weigh in as I am collaborating with Alexander. >>>> >>>> If a designer manually re-annotates a board and schematics he would follow >>>> a number of steps: >>>> >>>> Ensure the schematics, PCB, and netlist are coherent and without error >>>> (I.e. nothing in the schematics or PCB which is not in the other, netlist >>>> corresponds to schematic and PCB); >>>> Manually edit each component on the board and keep a record of every >>>> change in a “change list”; >>>> Manually edit the schematic in accordance with the “change list”; >>>> Regenerate the netlist; >>>> Update PCB from schematics; >>>> Verify that the schematics and PCB are still coherent. >>>> >>>> Manually editing the schematic would consist of going from component to >>>> component, looking up the component ref des in the “change list”, changing >>>> the ref des to the new value, and moving to the next component. The final >>>> step would only be necessary due to the near certainty that manual >>>> re-annotation would have introduced errors. >>>> >>>> This is, more or less, what I do in my standalone application. >>>> Unfortunately, I also run roughshod over timestamps, etc.. Nonetheless, >>>> the application has been well received and appears to be used a fair bit. >>>> >>>> If we were to write a demon (probably the wrong term) which essentially >>>> did the same steps, would that address your concerns? >>>> >>>> Of course, we would use Kiway to accomplish the transfers but the approach >>>> would be pretty much identical to a manual re-annotation except far less >>>> likely to introduce errors. >>>> >>>> If that would not work, can you please explain why? Perhaps if we >>>> understand why we can suggest solutions. >>>> >>>> Brian >>>> >>>> From: Wayne Stambaugh <mailto:stambau...@gmail.com> >>>> Sent: November 22, 2019 12:03 PM >>>> To: Alexander Shuklin <mailto:jasura...@gmail.com> >>>> Cc: KiCad Developers <mailto:kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net> >>>> Subject: Re: [Kicad-developers] Back annotate references from PCB >>>> >>>> I would prefer that you did ask questions rather than spending a lot of >>>> development time on a solution that would not be accepted because it >>>> breaks things. This is not a trivial problem although it may appear >>>> that way. There are plenty of ways to implement back annotation that >>>> will break things in unexpected ways. There are a very few ways to not >>>> break things. This is why I'm telling you this. If you don't care >>>> about the schematic and the board references being synchronized, then >>>> back-annotation isn't really necessary. As soon as you attempt to >>>> back-annotated the schematic from the board, all of the issues that I >>>> have previously discussed come in to play and have to be addressed. >>>> >>>> On 11/22/19 9:53 AM, Alexander Shuklin wrote: >>>> > Excuse me for so much questions. There's plenty of ways how it can be >>>> > done, and I'm quite new, maybe I don't see some simple way. >>>> > I can back up data from pcbnew which is not up to date to schematics, >>>> > after that I call update pcb dialog. Somebody will want to update pcb >>>> > by references and after that I will have pcbnew old data which is not >>>> > up to date either to schematics or layout anymore. I don't think there >>>> > will be straight forward solution how to solve it. >>>> > May I just open update pcb dialog and ask user to care about schematic >>>> > and layout being up to date? >>>> > >>>> > On Fri, 22 Nov 2019 at 17:16, Wayne Stambaugh <stambau...@gmail.com >>>> > <mailto:stambau...@gmail.com>> wrote: >>>> >> >>>> >> There is no need to create your own dialog. Just call the update board >>>> >> from schematic function before you back annotate. You will have to make >>>> >> a temporary copy of your board reference changes because updating from >>>> >> the schematic will clobber any reference changes in the board. >>>> >> >>>> >> On 11/22/19 9:13 AM, Alexander Shuklin wrote: >>>> >>> Hi Wayne, >>>> >>> >>>> >>> I don't want to start PCB update from eeschema straight away, because >>>> >>> if you run back-annotation, you already changed some references in >>>> >>> layout and you gonna lose it. And probably you can get some footprints >>>> >>> which are not connected to any of components in schematics as there's >>>> >>> possibility in pcbnew to create them. What I almost done is reporting >>>> >>> about all errors in dialog (I currently use annotation dialog in >>>> >>> eeschema, but I can create my own if it necessary), and if there's any >>>> >>> errors, it will not allow you to back-annotate. It will ask you to fix >>>> >>> them first. >>>> >>> But if you want, I can run "update pcb from schematic" dialog. >>>> >>> >>>> >>> On Fri, 22 Nov 2019 at 16:30, Wayne Stambaugh <stambau...@gmail.com >>>> >>> <mailto:stambau...@gmail.com>> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Hi Alexander, >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> You must ensure that all of the reference paths are up to date with >>>> >>>> the >>>> >>>> schematic before you attempt to back annotate from the board. >>>> >>>> Schematic >>>> >>>> changes can result in the footprint paths in the board being out of >>>> >>>> sync >>>> >>>> so you have to perform and update board from schematic (this code >>>> >>>> already exists) before you attempt to run the back annotation process >>>> >>>> from the board editor to ensure all of the paths are up to date. This >>>> >>>> will ensure when you back annotate that there is a one to one >>>> >>>> correlation between board footprint sheet paths and schematic symbol >>>> >>>> sheet paths. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Wayne >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 11/22/19 1:18 AM, Alexander Shuklin wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi Wayne, >>>> >>>>> thanks for answer. >>>> >>>>> Hopefully I will show you commit soon, so team could look, check and >>>> >>>>> suggest something about that. I'm aware about differences between >>>> >>>>> PCBnew and eeschema and just now I'm writing algorithm that will >>>> >>>>> check >>>> >>>>> it. >>>> >>>>> Do you mean that some schematic file(.sch) can be used in more than >>>> >>>>> one projects? So, I don't plan to change the unique IDs and those >>>> >>>>> components will still be linked to each other, but if references will >>>> >>>>> be changed it will make a mess in another project. >>>> >>>>> I have 3 ideas how I can deal with that: >>>> >>>>> 1) create a dialog, which will say something like "please make sure, >>>> >>>>> that your schematic files are not shared between different projects" >>>> >>>>> 2) I can go by recently opened projects, parse schematics in each of >>>> >>>>> them and look if any schematic uses sheet, which already in use in >>>> >>>>> current project. I'm now sure, but I would presume, that it will be >>>> >>>>> quite slow. >>>> >>>>> 3) To hold information in what project this particular schematics was >>>> >>>>> used. So that's should be saved in .sch file then. But I don't think >>>> >>>>> that information will be very valuable. >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> On Thu, 21 Nov 2019 at 00:07, Wayne Stambaugh <stambau...@gmail.com >>>> >>>>> <mailto:stambau...@gmail.com>> wrote: >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> On 11/7/19 5:06 AM, Alexander Shuklin wrote: >>>> >>>>>>> Hi, >>>> >>>>>>> is it alright to answer anybody in one letter? >>>> >>>>>>> First of all, don't take amiss if I keep silence for a day, as I >>>> >>>>>>> have >>>> >>>>>>> 2 little children and at the best case I have couple of hours a >>>> >>>>>>> day on >>>> >>>>>>> my own. >>>> >>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>> On Wed, 6 Nov 2019 at 16:27, Wayne Stambaugh <stambau...@gmail.com >>>> >>>>>>> <mailto:stambau...@gmail.com>> wrote: >>>> >>>>>>>> Complex schematic hierarchies (using the same schematic more than >>>> >>>>>>>> once in a design) always trips up new developers. >>>> >>>>>>> Can you please explain a bit more? I know that you can use >>>> >>>>>>> hierarchical sheets, so there will be more than one sch files in >>>> >>>>>>> the >>>> >>>>>>> schematic. And there's also "multi-symbols" which have few eeschema >>>> >>>>>>> symbols but one footprint. I'm not quite understand what means >>>> >>>>>>> "using >>>> >>>>>>> the same schematic more than once in a design", as every symbol has >>>> >>>>>>> unique ID. Is it something else I'm not aware of? >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> Yes, every symbol has a unique path ID but that doesn't mean that >>>> >>>>>> the >>>> >>>>>> board and the schematic will always be in sync so this is where >>>> >>>>>> issues >>>> >>>>>> come into play. There also can be unique IDs from other projects >>>> >>>>>> because schematics can be shared between projects so you have to be >>>> >>>>>> careful not to break all of these cases. >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>> You'll want to take a close look at KIWAY::ExpressMail() and >>>> >>>>>>>> KIWAY_PLAYER::KiwayMailIn() >>>> >>>>>>> Ok, I'll look at that. I think I've seen that in footprints back >>>> >>>>>>> annotation. >>>> >>>>>>>> This is unfortunate. Being able to work directly with on of the >>>> >>>>>>>> lead developers would have made this task a lot easier to >>>> >>>>>>>> understand. You are always free to reach out for help on this >>>> >>>>>>>> mailing list. >>>> >>>>>>> Thanks for that. Actually now i think to join FOSDEM, but I need >>>> >>>>>>> visa >>>> >>>>>>> and I'm not sure yet. >>>> >>>>>>>> Asking first prevents you from working on something that someone >>>> >>>>>>>> else may already be working on and writing code that would be >>>> >>>>>>>> immediately rejected >>>> >>>>>>> Actually I already made that mistake, when made board statistics >>>> >>>>>>> dialog. It was accepted, but I felt myself really stupid. >>>> >>>>>>>> Good luck and thank you for your interest in contributing to >>>> >>>>>>>> KiCad. >>>> >>>>>>> Thanks! I will try hard to match coding and git polices. >>>> >>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>> On Wed, 6 Nov 2019 at 17:24, Jon Evans <j...@craftyjon.com >>>> >>>>>>> <mailto:j...@craftyjon.com>> wrote: >>>> >>>>>>>> Eeschema now keeps its internal net state up to date >>>> >>>>>>>> continuously, but I didn't work on any continuous syncing to >>>> >>>>>>>> PcbNew. The way it works in Eeschema, the graphical schematic is >>>> >>>>>>>> still the driving source of truth; the netlist does not drive the >>>> >>>>>>>> schematic. >>>> >>>>>>> Am I right in general idea: Eeschema creates netlist which updates >>>> >>>>>>> continuously. And PCB updates through eeschema by "uppdate PCB from >>>> >>>>>>> schematic" tool. It isn't planned to do that automatically and >>>> >>>>>>> continuously, is it? >>>> >>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>> On Wed, 6 Nov 2019 at 17:56, Brian Piccioni >>>> >>>>>>> <br...@documenteddesigns.com <mailto:br...@documenteddesigns.com>> >>>> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>>>>> My utility is up on GitHub as a standalone app. I learned enough >>>> >>>>>>>> c++ and wxWidgets so porting it to Kicad should be useful. >>>> >>>>>>> I've seen your app, and bug report. And actually I try to jump in >>>> >>>>>>> because I use geometrical renumber of components as well))) >>>> >>>>>>>> Replacing my homebrew parsing of PCB, Schematic, and netlist >>>> >>>>>>>> files to calls to internal Kicad functions/methods in the >>>> >>>>>>>> respective apps; >>>> >>>>>>>> Once this is done I’ll use Kiway to communicate the changes >>>> >>>>>>>> between eeSchema and PCBNew. >>>> >>>>>>> Have you already start to create communication between eeschema and >>>> >>>>>>> pcbnew? If not, don't you mind if I'll start with that first? From >>>> >>>>>>> my >>>> >>>>>>> point of view, that's a worst part in this question today. For >>>> >>>>>>> example >>>> >>>>>>> you can renumber modules in pcbnew even by python scripts, but you >>>> >>>>>>> have no any tool to change schematic after that. And by the way >>>> >>>>>>> it's >>>> >>>>>>> not only about renumber of all components. Somebody would like to >>>> >>>>>>> change some references in pcbnew by hand at push that data back to >>>> >>>>>>> schematics. >>>> >>>>>>>> In the final version, if I understand correctly, in V6 changes to >>>> >>>>>>>> the PCB will be back-annotated to the schematic in order to >>>> >>>>>>>> support pin and gate swapping. So updating the PCB will >>>> >>>>>>>> immediately incorporate the changes to the schematic. I haven’t >>>> >>>>>>>> seen any discussions of how this will be done but clearly if the >>>> >>>>>>>> prototype as described above works it will be trivial to support >>>> >>>>>>>> the V6 common database. >>>> >>>>>>> Hm... I haven't think about that... I'm not sure if pin swapping >>>> >>>>>>> will >>>> >>>>>>> interact with back-annotation tool. I wouldn't say that, but if >>>> >>>>>>> somebody has comments and thoughts about that, it would be greatly >>>> >>>>>>> appreciated. >>>> >>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>> As far as I see now, It should be some tool a bit similar to >>>> >>>>>>> "Update >>>> >>>>>>> PCB from schematic", which will utilize KiWay functions to send >>>> >>>>>>> data >>>> >>>>>>> between PCBnew and eeschema.. >>>> >>>>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers >>>> >>>> <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers> >>>> >>>> Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net >>>> >>>> <mailto:kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net> >>>> >>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers >>>> >>>> <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers> >>>> >>>> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp >>>> >>>> <https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers >>>> <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers> >>>> Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net >>>> <mailto:kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net> >>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers >>>> <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers> >>>> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp >>>> <https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers >>>> <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers> >>>> Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net >>>> <mailto:kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net> >>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers >>>> <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers> >>>> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp >>>> <https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers >>> <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers> >>> Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net >>> <mailto:kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net> >>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers >>> <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers> >>> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp >>> <https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp> >
_______________________________________________ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
