On 8/22/2017 8:05 AM, Bastian Neumannn wrote: > Hi > >> Ultimately is it useful to design a board, if you cannot make it? > > Right now I can fabricate boards, I can not design. That is also not a > good solution. > > via constraints are tricky bussiness as they are very specific to the > manufacturer.
I'm not opposed to this change. However, there are two schools of thought when it comes to board layout: strict layout constraints and no layout constraints. I tend to lean towards the latter but I've been doing this for 30 years so I am painfully aware of the pitfalls of no layout constraints and have a pretty good idea of what not to do. Should we choose to loosen the layout constraints for blind/buried vias, then we should be prepared for a serious tongue lashing the first time someone violates their board vendor's manufacturing limitations and ends up with a bunch of useless and likely expensive boards. Maybe at some point in the future we will have a complete constraint system that can cover all possibilities but until then we have to walk that fine line between power users and beginners. > >> PS: >> The current "tracks and vias editor" dialog is (for me) a not finished work: >> It does not make any DRC test after editing, and this is *really annoying*. > > This is what I am working on at the moment. To have a propper mask where > one can input constraints for vias. > > At the moment you can only define some layers. There is much more work > to do. Like staggered/stacked µvias > > Inline-Bild 2 > > Based on this dialog I plan on having more layer masks to only show > layers described here. > > Cheers > > 2017-08-22 13:00 GMT+02:00 jp charras <jp.char...@wanadoo.fr > <mailto:jp.char...@wanadoo.fr>>: > > Le 22/08/2017 à 12:10, Simon Küppers a écrit : > > I second this. Working in a Research Institute I can assure you, that > very often there are circuit > > boards with "interesting" stackups and via configurations... These > boards are not produced by > > quick-turn factories like eurocircuits but companies such as ILFA or > Optiprint. > > > > It would be unwise to cut out those users from KiCad. > > I dont't remember I said we should restrict vias to eurocircuits > constraints. > > Moreover "very often there are circuit boards with "interesting" > stackups and via configurations" > lead me to think there are constraints, unless I missed something. > (if there are "via configurations", there are constraints) > > I don't think eurocircuits is at quick-turn factory (although I have > myself any experience about > blind/buried vias) but I think blind/buried vias can have > constraints, because I saw constraints in > board houses. > > Ultimately is it useful to design a board, if you cannot make it? > > In fact, Pcbnew is really lacking a board stackup editor, to define > not only the stackup layers, but > some other parameters (via parameters, copper thickness, dielectric > thickness and type, and a few > other parameters). > > This board stackup definition is needed not only for vias, but also > for impedance controlled boards. > > PS: > The current "tracks and vias editor" dialog is (for me) a not > finished work: > It does not make any DRC test after editing, and this is *really > annoying*. > > > > > > > > Am 2017-08-22 09:57, schrieb hauptmech: > >> On 22/08/17 18:25, jp charras wrote: > >>> Le 22/08/2017 à 05:55, hauptmech a écrit : > >>>> Manufacturing techniques vary between manufacturers and > continuously evolve. Why would kicad limit > >>>> itself to what eurocircuits can do? They have optimized their > process for quick turn prototyping > >>>> and > >>>> while they document their process nicely, they are probably not > a good reference for what can be > >>>> done. > >>>> > >>>> On 21/08/17 05:44, jp charras wrote: > >>>>> Before working on blind and buried vias dialog, please have a > look at: > >>>>> https://www.eurocircuits.com/blog/Blind-and-buried-vias > <https://www.eurocircuits.com/blog/Blind-and-buried-vias> > >>> Currently there is no control in Kicad. > >>> > >>> Sure, but it looks like there are some constraints on > blind/buried vias (microvias are blind/buried > >>> vias) depending on board houses. > >>> > >>> So it could be worth to be able to control these constraints > inside Kicad (at least to have a > >>> minimal control). > >>> > >>> We currently have a DRC which detects too small clearances and > track widths: > >>> this is most of time due to manufacturing constraints which > continuously evolve. > >>> > >> I don't think I have enough understanding of the proposal to have an > >> opinion. I just want to caution against creating unnecessary > >> limitations in kicad. It really depends on the board house. I used to > >> work for one and there were quite a few atypical techniques used for > >> customer specific projects (many kept confidential to that customer). > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers> > >> Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net > <mailto:kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net> > >> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers> > >> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp > <https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers> > > Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net > <mailto:kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net> > > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers> > > More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp > <https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp> > > > -- > Jean-Pierre CHARRAS > > _______________________________________________ > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers> > Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net > <mailto:kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net> > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers> > More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp > <https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp > _______________________________________________ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
