Carl and other library folks, I understand you had to make the change, and I'm certain it took hard work to make everything match, and I'm glad that the libraries are better now, but I hate the fact that many, many users will never be notified of this board-breaking change, and we have absolutely no way of notifying them.
Rather than make a github-plugin specific change that will only alert users about changes in footprints, I think we should see if we can quickly code a dialog that checks a location on kicad-pcb.org for news, and display it on KiCad startup by default if it has changed. I would like to get this in before the stable release, but I know we're already in feature freeze. Wayne, what do you think? Adam Wolf Cofounder and Engineer Wayne and Layne, LLC On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 9:25 PM, Carl Poirier <carl.poirie...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi Adam, > > Indeed, those who want to be sure nothing changes until they want so are > better to make a local copy. With the new Footprint Libraries Wizard, users > are just a few clicks away from it with the checkbox "Save a local copy > to". Using the libraries directly from Github is bleeding-edge, but as you > said the problem arises from the fact that we have symbols installed > locally and footprints fetched from Github. If both are handled the same > way, either way it is, it will be fine. And again this causes problems only > for aspects of libraries that have to be in sync - such as pin numbers. The > other things that have to be in sync are the 3D models. That's why many > folks, including me, have suggested > <https://lists.launchpad.net/kicad-developers/msg14793.html> to move the > 3D model inside the .pretty library. Maybe it could be done elegantly, but > unfortunately I'm not the one who has enough time to put in this. > > As for the other libraries, we're slowly getting to a stable and > consistent state. Besides eradicating the special.lib library, I can't > think of another disruptive change that will happen soon. I'm not saying > there will be none, just that there are none planned. We go as our time > permits. > > As for why people would use KiCad's libraries, I'd say because they can be > assured at least two librarians go over a suggested change to iron out > errors. Also because new parts are constantly thrown into the mix as well > so the libraries are getting more complete over time. As for the quality of > the pre-github era libraries, nothing can be vouched. We're fixing things > as we find them. What's great is that with Github, it's very easy for those > people in doubt about KiCad's libraries to contribute and make them better > if they think there is room for it. > > I should have warned in advance here for this change specifically to make > sure everyone was aware. I should have not relied on the fact that no one > disagreed days ago about having disruptive changes in general. Besides > that, I'm not sure what more could have been done. > > Regards, > > Carl > > On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 8:43 PM, Adam Wolf <adamw...@feelslikeburning.com> > wrote: > >> Carl, >> >> I have had multiple people contact me today saying, "Why would I ever use >> KiCad's libraries again?" >> >> I had no idea before your email today that diodes were going to change, >> and I follow the dev list daily, and I'm the packager for the OS X >> nightlies. >> >> We're in this together. I don't have time to check yet another place for >> KiCad changes. >> >> After I think about this some more, I'm going to start another thread on >> what this means for the OS X nightlies. By having half the data burned in, >> and half the data updated live, this is going to continue to happen. >> People are going to make bad boards, and if I would have bundled the >> footprints with the nightlies and not made Github the default, this >> wouldn't have happened. >> >> Most of the other packages are like this, right? >> >> Adam Wolf >> >> Cofounder and Engineer >> >> Wayne and Layne, LLC >> >> (resending from an email that can post to kicad-dev...) >> >> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 7:42 PM, Adam Wolf <adamww...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Carl, >>> >>> I have had multiple people contact me today saying, "Why would I ever >>> use KiCad's libraries again?" >>> >>> I had no idea before your email today that diodes were going to change, >>> and I follow the dev list daily, and I'm the packager for the OS X >>> nightlies. >>> >>> We're in this together. I don't have time to check yet another place >>> for KiCad changes. >>> >>> After I think about this some more, I'm going to start another thread on >>> what this means for the OS X nightlies. By having half the data burned in, >>> and half the data updated live, this is going to continue to happen. >>> People are going to make bad boards, and if I would have bundled the >>> footprints with the nightlies and not made Github the default, this >>> wouldn't have happened. >>> >>> Most of the other packages are like this, right? >>> >>> Adam Wolf >>> >>> Cofounder and Engineer >>> >>> Wayne and Layne, LLC >>> >>> On Apr 24, 2015 7:01 PM, "Carl Poirier" <carl.poirie...@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Then you should have come by and discussed the matter on Github. The >>>> issues and pull requests about the diodes had been open for a while now and >>>> open for comments. To get updates in time about the changes proposed, I >>>> suggest you watch this repository >>>> <https://github.com/KiCad/kicad-library>. >>>> >>>> If you have suggestions for the next similar situation, I'm listening. >>>> >>>> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 7:55 PM, Garth Corral <gcor...@abode.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I don’t object to what you’re doing, just how it’s being done. You >>>>> don’t think this case is just a little bit special? Last time things were >>>>> pretty obviously broken with the change, in this case they’re not. You’ve >>>>> swapped out a symbol for something that’s basically the same except, oh, >>>>> by >>>>> the way, all your diodes are reversed. Am I misunderstanding this change? >>>>> Is this not true? >>>>> >>>>> Garth >>>>> >>>>> On Apr 24, 2015, at 4:34 PM, Carl Poirier <carl.poirie...@gmail.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> KiCad's libraries were filled without any rules throughout time. All >>>>> these changes are necessary to have something consistent. Kerusey Karyu >>>>> warned people one month ago on the mailing list >>>>> <https://lists.launchpad.net/kicad-developers/msg17476.html> that we >>>>> were in the process of moving things around. No one complained. Now why >>>>> when we take action people wake up all of a sudden? >>>>> >>>>> The sooner we get things straight, the better it is. If we wait too >>>>> much, it will be too late. Before issuing the stable release sounds like >>>>> an >>>>> appropriate moment to land the disruptive changes. >>>>> >>>>> BTW, I'm about to eradicate the special.lib library, as planned for now >>>>> over one month <https://github.com/KiCad/kicad-library/issues/153>, a >>>>> great initiative taken by Kerusey. >>>>> >>>>> Regards, >>>>> >>>>> Carl >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 7:21 PM, Garth Corral <gcor...@abode.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> This plan to deprecate the old diode type seems… uh... poorly thought >>>>>> out. Yanking these out from under everyone and every project in >>>>>> exiistence >>>>>> and then sending out a message that says, “hey, guess what I did?” >>>>>> doesn’t >>>>>> seem like the best way to handle this. It is most certainly not the way >>>>>> to >>>>>> win converts to kicad. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Garth >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Apr 24, 2015, at 2:31 PM, Carl Poirier <carl.poirie...@gmail.com> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Thiadmer, your proposal would require to duplicate every .pretty >>>>>> repository for every stable release. And I believe the schematics won't >>>>>> change because of the cache. >>>>>> >>>>>> Another solution would be to modify the github plugin to fetch a >>>>>> branch in particular instead of the master. Then, we could create one >>>>>> branch in each .pretty repository that would remain in the state at the >>>>>> time of the stable release. >>>>>> >>>>>> That, or we ship the stable release with local .pretty repositories >>>>>> as well. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 3:20 PM, Thiadmer Riemersma < >>>>>> thiadmer.riemer...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> For the stable release, I would vote for backward compatibility: >>>>>>> have "deprecated" libraries with the diodes as they are right now >>>>>>> (footprints + symbols), plus "standards-compliant" libraries with the >>>>>>> cathode at pin 1 and the anode at pin 2. It would not be good if old >>>>>>> schematics change just because they are loaded in a new version of >>>>>>> KiCad. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 7:31 PM, Carl Poirier < >>>>>>> carl.poirie...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Maybe this could be implemented for the stable release. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 1:30 PM, Bob Gustafson <bob...@rcn.com> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sounds professional. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Bob G >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 04/24/2015 12:24 PM, Adam Wolf wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> For future things like this, what do people think of a webview >>>>>>>>> that pops up on startup after checking a site for alerts? >>>>>>>>> On Apr 24, 2015 12:14 PM, "Carl Poirier" <carl.poirie...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> All installations need a local kicad-library, not just OS X. They >>>>>>>>>> are all in the same situation. The next OS X nightly will be good if >>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>> pull the latest kicad-libary for the build. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Kerusey Karyu will announce the change on the users group on >>>>>>>>>> Yahoo to warn people. If anyone has an account and wants to forward >>>>>>>>>> my >>>>>>>>>> message before he does, feel free to do so. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 12:55 PM, Adam Wolf < >>>>>>>>>> adamw...@feelslikeburning.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Hmm. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> So the OSX builds use Github by default for footprints, and have >>>>>>>>>>> symbols "baked in" at build time. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Every OS X nightly build is going to produce bad boards, and >>>>>>>>>>> there's no way to tell users to update or inform them about this >>>>>>>>>>> change >>>>>>>>>>> through the program at all. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I really wish I would have known about this earlier. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Adam Wolf >>>>>>>>>>> Cofounder and Engineer >>>>>>>>>>> Wayne and Layne >>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 24, 2015 11:42 AM, "Carl Poirier" < >>>>>>>>>>> carl.poirie...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Hi folks, >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> This is simply to warn you that all diodes in KiCad's >>>>>>>>>>>> libraries have seen their pin numbers swapped. This is to be in >>>>>>>>>>>> line with >>>>>>>>>>>> most other software and the IPC standard as well, which states >>>>>>>>>>>> that cathode >>>>>>>>>>>> should be pin 1. This work is courtesy of the newest librarian, >>>>>>>>>>>> Ricardo >>>>>>>>>>>> Crudo. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> If you are using Github libraries directly, the only thing >>>>>>>>>>>> you will have left to do is update your schematic libraries to the >>>>>>>>>>>> latest >>>>>>>>>>>> revision of https://github.com/KiCad/kicad-library before >>>>>>>>>>>> continuing your work. If you have a local copy of the footprint >>>>>>>>>>>> repositories, then when you are ready you will be able to pull the >>>>>>>>>>>> changes >>>>>>>>>>>> for both the schematic libraries and the affected footprint >>>>>>>>>>>> libraries: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> 1. Diodes_SMD.pretty >>>>>>>>>>>> <https://github.com/KiCad/Diodes_SMD.pretty> >>>>>>>>>>>> 2. Diodes_ThroughHole.pretty >>>>>>>>>>>> <https://github.com/KiCad/Diodes_ThroughHole.pretty> >>>>>>>>>>>> 3. LEDs.pretty <https://github.com/KiCad/LEDs.pretty> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you for your understanding and sorry for the >>>>>>>>>>>> inconvenience. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Carl Poirier >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers >>>>>>>>>>>> Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net >>>>>>>>>>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers >>>>>>>>>>>> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers >>>>>>>>> Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net >>>>>>>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers >>>>>>>>> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers >>>>>>>>> Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net >>>>>>>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers >>>>>>>>> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers >>>>>>>> Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net >>>>>>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers >>>>>>>> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers >>>>>>> Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net >>>>>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers >>>>>>> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers >>>>>> Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net >>>>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers >>>>>> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers >>>>> Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net >>>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers >>>>> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers >>>> Post to : kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.net >>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers >>>> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp >>>> >>>> >> >
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