On Fri, Jan 23, 2015 at 12:36 PM, Israel <isr...@torios.org> wrote: > Hi, >
Hi, > This is especially true if we have our own mail server that we can ensure > is up to date with the latest security patches, etc.. and of course using > open source programs will ensure our freedom (they cannot claim our e-mails > are their property, since it is our server) > That is the main concern I have with using proprietary solutions. A good > 'real-world' example is purchasing a digital movie from Amazon. You 'own' > it, but you cannot easily download your content and watch it without > internet and burn it to a DVD for use where there is no internet > connectivity. And of course if Amazon ever tanks, you do not own it any > longer. > With our own service we could (with the correct authority, of course) > download and archive a section of the mailing list in order to catch up, or > re-read important e-mails, or to have security in legal cases, or whatever > else we may need. Plus if you have it on the computer you can use grep, > sed, awk, etc... which are all fantastic libre tools :) > That's the plan indeed, my friend. I agree with all what you mentioned. We have a powerful server. I see no reason why we don't have our own mail server? We have 16GB of RAM, that's very much all what we need at the moment. 2TB of HDD and Core i7 so what are we waiting for? You have my GO signal if this is what we are waiting for ... Thanks! > > > On 01/22/2015 09:52 AM, Jonathan Aquilina wrote: > > What you mention in terms of private and public communications. This is > where a mailing list is good and the archive remains private and internal. > > On Thu, Jan 22, 2015 at 2:40 PM, Israel <isr...@torios.org> wrote: > >> Hi all, >> I just thought I'd throw in a few bits here. >> I don't really care how you all want to do things in management, etc... >> As long as, when it comes down to it, I can just do my own work with only >> the customer's specific needs/design/etc.. as the constraints. >> I think some private form of communication is essential for a business, >> as well as public. >> You all can set this up however is good an right. >> >> I would like for our communications not to be owned by a proprietary >> company... I'd rather them be public than that (personal idealogical views). >> But if you all need to use a proprietary company I will not leave, or get >> upset at you. >> We already use G+ which is owned by a company that is well known for data >> mining (does anyone remember PRISM?). >> >> As for meetings... right now I have so very little time to devote to >> meetings, and you always start one at times that are not good for me. >> I have kids and cannot devote too much of my life to things away from >> them, while I am with them. >> Once this project is off the ground, I will be more involved. But as it >> is, I do not need to be involved in the setup phase. >> >> I am just letting you all know that I intend to remain relatively quite, >> but I am actually still around :) >> >> >> >> On 01/21/2015 11:25 PM, Jonathan Aquilina wrote: >> >> Weekends are best for me. early mornings and preferably on weekends to >> meet and discuss. >> >> On Thu, Jan 22, 2015 at 2:20 AM, Emily Gonyer <emilyyr...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>> Tomorrow I'm mostly free aside from 10am-1pm (I'm -5GMT...), Friday >>> we'll be visiting a museum, but I can check in on IRC/email; early >>> Saturday I'm available but planning to go out in the evening - so up >>> till ~4-4:30pm. Sunday I don't have any plans except to sleep in :p >>> >>> Emily >>> >>> On Wed, Jan 21, 2015 at 8:16 PM, Ali Linx (amjjawad) <amjja...@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> > >>> > >>> > On Thu, Jan 22, 2015 at 12:13 PM, Emily Gonyer <emilyyr...@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >> >>> >> Ali, >>> > >>> > >>> > Hi dear Emily, >>> > >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> I'm not going to pretend I have any idea as to why it was that Gustavo >>> >> and/or Svetlana left, nor do I particularly care. >>> > >>> > >>> > I highly respect your honesty. Thank you for speaking your mind >>> directly. >>> > >>> >> >>> >> I am still very >>> >> interested in and excited about Kibo, and plan to continue to help >>> >> however/whenever I can. >>> > >>> > >>> > So kind and nice of you, many thanks :) >>> > >>> > >>> >> >>> >> I feel like we are going to be in need of >>> >> another meeting with the remaining members present asap to discuss >>> >> what we have, what we need, where we're going, etc. >>> > >>> > >>> > I agree. I was about to ask for that but I wanted to prepare some >>> positive >>> > progress first :) >>> > >>> >> >>> >> I'm fairly busy >>> >> over the next few days but if I know ahead of time, I should be able >>> >> to make time. >>> > >>> > >>> > For me, my time is +11 GMT and you guys can contact me anytime. >>> Whenever >>> > you're free. However, what about the coming days? >>> > >>> > Fri? >>> > Sat? >>> > Sun? >>> > >>> > >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Emily >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > Thank you! >>> > >>> > >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> On Wed, Jan 21, 2015 at 7:34 PM, Ali Linx (amjjawad) < >>> amjja...@gmail.com> >>> >> wrote: >>> >> > @Phill: >>> >> > I'm CC'ing you as per your request as discussed last night (your >>> time). >>> >> > >>> >> > On Thu, Jan 22, 2015 at 2:15 AM, Jonathan Aquilina >>> >> > <eagles051...@gmail.com> >>> >> > wrote: >>> >> >> >>> >> >> Hey Ali, >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > Hi Jonathan and everyone else, >>> >> > >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> I want to put this out there as I have spoken to some people and >>> they >>> >> >> are >>> >> >> getting a bit worn out with the lack of decisions being taken and >>> only >>> >> >> discussion. As the saying goes actions speak louder than words. >>> That is >>> >> >> in a >>> >> >> way why I took the decision to speak to phil about the server. >>> >> >> >>> >> >> Again things are stuck in a loop of discussion and no action is >>> >> >> happening. >>> >> >> The people I spoke to are on the verge of leaving. >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > The people you spoke to, with all due respect, are not being honest >>> and >>> >> > they're spreading more than one version of the story :) they tell >>> you >>> >> > something, they tell Phill different thing and they tell me >>> something >>> >> > else. >>> >> > For you ALL to understand, I hate this childish behaviour. Grown up >>> >> > people >>> >> > should never do that. If you have a problem with someone or >>> something, >>> >> > bring >>> >> > it to discussion and no need to come up with different version of >>> the >>> >> > story >>> >> > and go public with it. >>> >> > >>> >> > Here is what happened: >>> >> > Gustavo and Svetlana both joined Kibo as they were super >>> interested. One >>> >> > is >>> >> > a business person (as he said) and the other is a community person >>> (as >>> >> > she >>> >> > said). >>> >> > >>> >> > We were super fine and everything was okay. >>> >> > >>> >> > Over a disagreement and different opinion, they both left at the >>> same >>> >> > time. >>> >> > >>> >> > After 24 hours, Gustavo sent me a long email asking to be back to >>> Kibo. >>> >> > I >>> >> > still have that email if someone does not believe me here - in case. >>> >> > I accepted that and he wanted to bring back Svetlana and I too >>> accepted >>> >> > that. >>> >> > >>> >> > I had a condition. It was: "please don't leave again if we >>> disagree. We >>> >> > should not let such silly things get into our way. Every beginning >>> is >>> >> > hard >>> >> > so let's move forward and work as a team." >>> >> > >>> >> > They accepted that. >>> >> > >>> >> > After that last meeting, Emily, myself and Gustavo was there - I >>> have >>> >> > the >>> >> > link for the meeting as we did record that on YouTube. >>> >> > >>> >> > Gustavo after that meeting remained silent. I knew and did SEE what >>> >> > would >>> >> > happen next and it indeed happened and I was right. He asked me for >>> a >>> >> > chat >>> >> > and he quit, yet again. This time, he said it is not about you Ali, >>> it >>> >> > is >>> >> > about something else. >>> >> > >>> >> > He complained about several things that is not personal nor related >>> to >>> >> > me. >>> >> > >>> >> > While he was chatting with me, after he left, Svetlana did leave >>> after >>> >> > few >>> >> > seconds. That could not be by chance. I know both were on IRC and >>> they >>> >> > both >>> >> > agreed to leave. >>> >> > >>> >> > To me, she has zero ability to make up her mind. She is following >>> only. >>> >> > If >>> >> > someone leaves, she leaves. If someone stays, she will stay. She >>> can't >>> >> > make >>> >> > any decision and this is what I 'saw' based on her 'actions'. >>> >> > >>> >> > By the way, both of them joined ToriOS and they both left. NO GOOD >>> >> > reason >>> >> > for that except they both were picky and didn't really know what >>> they're >>> >> > doing. >>> >> > >>> >> > I have talked to Gustavo. I still have the chat log but I will not >>> going >>> >> > to >>> >> > share it unless he agrees. >>> >> > >>> >> > I sent an email to thank them both: >>> >> > >>> >> > Dear Svetlana and Gustavo, >>> >> > >>> >> > I'd like to show my great appreciations and thank you so much for >>> >> > everything >>> >> > regarding Kibo, specially your quitting the project/team. This has >>> >> > inspired >>> >> > me big time and motivated me a lot. >>> >> > >>> >> > Yesterday, I have come across the attached quote. I saved the image >>> on >>> >> > my >>> >> > HDD and kept it on my desktop. >>> >> > >>> >> > Today, I have indeed learned the real meaning of that quote and I >>> have >>> >> > indeed applied that in my life and WOW, it didn't only work but it >>> did >>> >> > create a huge positive power/energy and I'm so grateful for that :D >>> >> > >>> >> > This is in my mind and heart at the moment so I am letting you know >>> >> > that. >>> >> > >>> >> > All the best and should you need 'anything', I'm more than glad to >>> help >>> >> > while I can. >>> >> > >>> >> > Take care! >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > And I made it extra clear that my door is always open. But ... >>> >> > I ask you all to put yourself in my shoes. Will you accept someone >>> who >>> >> > left >>> >> > 3 times from your house after you were super kind and nice to them? >>> you >>> >> > hosted them 3 times and they left? >>> >> > >>> >> > Gustavo admitted it he was picky and didn't understand Kibo. >>> >> > >>> >> > He got demotivated and didn't want to carry on when he read that >>> >> > Jonathan is >>> >> > not willing to quit his daily work over Kibo. >>> >> > >>> >> > I explained to him and to everyone that Kibo is a part-time job >>> project >>> >> > for >>> >> > the moment. If we can make it and we can make a company out of it, >>> we >>> >> > can >>> >> > work as full-time but only crazy people who might think Kibo is a >>> >> > full-time >>> >> > job. It is not. For me, perhaps it is because I'm jobless. But I >>> would >>> >> > NEVER >>> >> > ever ask someone to quit his job. >>> >> > >>> >> > I'm not a kid, people. I've been around for sometime and I know who >>> is >>> >> > serious and who is not. Who is fooling around and who is not. Who is >>> >> > helpful >>> >> > and who is know. Who is understanding what we do and who is know. >>> >> > >>> >> > Gustavo showed a lot of positive stuff but at the same time, he >>> >> > misunderstood lots of things. Thus, he left. >>> >> > >>> >> > As for Svetlana, as I said, she is always following someone and >>> can't >>> >> > make >>> >> > her own decision herself. >>> >> > She was like either: +1 or -1 only. >>> >> > >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> I agree with us being too over exposed using launch pad. I proposed >>> >> >> alternatives. >>> >> >> >>> >> >> 1) mailman for mailing list with private archives which is very >>> >> >> beneficial. If the concern is that people's inboxes will get filled >>> >> >> with >>> >> >> lots of emails that isnt the case that is up to them when they >>> >> >> subscribe. >>> >> >> They can subscribe to digest and get an email with multiple >>> postings >>> >> >> instead >>> >> >> of individual emails. >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > What are we waiting for?! I tell you what :) >>> >> > Because NONE of you replied my email about the roles, tasks, and >>> all ... >>> >> > go >>> >> > back to your inbox and see ;) >>> >> > >>> >> > That is why I sent these emails. So X knows what to do and Y knows >>> what >>> >> > to >>> >> > do. >>> >> > >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> 2) redmine this is a bug tracker as well as project management as >>> well >>> >> >> as >>> >> >> version control integration and much more this is a great tool to >>> have >>> >> >> in >>> >> >> place from now as we can use it to track bugs and issues on the >>> website >>> >> >> and >>> >> >> more. >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > I have never used it. If someone could take the time to explain >>> that to >>> >> > us, >>> >> > then why not? I am not against using anything good. WHY people >>> can't get >>> >> > that straight? if someone has an opinion of a feedback, that does >>> not >>> >> > mean >>> >> > he/she is against the idea. >>> >> > >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> Ali you need to remember as well that things take time to build up >>> a >>> >> >> following and you have to spend money to make it and in this case >>> I am >>> >> >> helpign you with the amjjawad website as well as kibos for now as >>> well >>> >> >> as >>> >> >> phil with the server. If you want this to succeed we need to move >>> >> >> forward >>> >> >> with actions and not rush things. >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > I know that. Thanks for the reminder. Appreciate it. But, there is a >>> >> > HUGE >>> >> > misunderstanding here. >>> >> > >>> >> > We're confusing RUSHING with TAKING ACTIONS. >>> >> > >>> >> > And there are some other misunderstanding ... >>> >> > >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> I would suggest as well talking with Gustavo and putting together a >>> >> >> business plan so that way the business can be presented to >>> investors >>> >> >> and we >>> >> >> get the cash we need to get established correctly. >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > He has quit. >>> >> > Again, put yourself in my shoes. Would you accept someone joined >>> you 3 >>> >> > times >>> >> > and quit 3 times? >>> >> > And he made it extra clear when I tried to change his mind that he >>> is no >>> >> > longer interested and can't help with Kibo. Why do I have to accept >>> him >>> >> > for >>> >> > the 4th time so he leaves again for the 4th time? again, what would >>> YOU >>> >> > do >>> >> > if you were in my place?! >>> >> > >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> Here is a quote from Michael Baisden and I agree with him totally. >>> >> >> >>> >> >> “those who fail to plan, plan to fail!” >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > I am NOT blind so you don't really have to make it that large :) >>> >> > But thanks anyway. >>> >> > >>> >> > "People don't plan to fail, they fail to plan." >>> >> > >>> >> > In my case, I do plan but NO ONE wishes to listen nor discuss >>> anything >>> >> > and >>> >> > EVERYONE seems to push what he/she wants. NO, sorry, this is not >>> what I >>> >> > want. This is not what a team is about. A team means: all of us are >>> >> > smarter >>> >> > than anyone of us. Someone got upset just because we didn't take >>> 'his' >>> >> > input. Why? ask them :) >>> >> > >>> >> > I have been rejected billion of times. What I have done? before I >>> quit, >>> >> > I >>> >> > did what people told me in my face that this will fail. >>> >> > Example? >>> >> > I suggested a community spin for Lubuntu for super old machines. I >>> got >>> >> > rejected by the majority of Lubuntu Community - no need to mention >>> >> > names. >>> >> > What I did? ToriOS and guess what? it is much lighter than Lubuntu >>> :) >>> >> > >>> >> > I didn't quit right away when I got rejected nor someone disagreed >>> with >>> >> > me. >>> >> > I quit when I found myself zero helpful for Lubuntu after 2 years of >>> >> > being >>> >> > the most active member of all and achieved what none achieved. >>> >> > >>> >> > If you are NOT sure what to do? don't do. Wait, think and then do. >>> >> > >>> >> > So, I would be very careful to accept both of them again in Kibo. >>> They >>> >> > were >>> >> > never rejected. We were only discussing the ideas. Once their ideas >>> >> > aren't >>> >> > taken, they feel bad. Is this a school or what?! >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> Sadly with things being super rushed that is whats going to happen. >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > Define: "super rushed", please! >>> >> > >>> >> > Who went to Phill for a server? Me? that was you :) >>> >> > Define: super rushed so we both be on the same page :D >>> >> > >>> >> > I'm afraid I'm lost. I don't know who is rushed and who is not :) >>> >> > All what I know is we're in different pages at the moment ... but >>> that >>> >> > is >>> >> > not the end of the world. At least for me. >>> >> > >>> >> >> >>> >> >> Gustavo is a great and very helpful guy when it comes to this sort >>> of >>> >> >> stuff and I know he wants this to succeed as well as I. >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > He left. His choice. It wasn't about ME. He left for something >>> else. Can >>> >> > we >>> >> > all agree on that, please?! >>> >> > >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> I am telling you this as a friend and not only to you to everyone >>> on >>> >> >> here. >>> >> >> It may seem harsh but its the hard truth and reality. >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > You should know by now .. in fact, all of you that I respect those >>> who >>> >> > come >>> >> > and talk to me directly, not leaving after all what I have done for >>> them >>> >> > without one single word. I admire what Gustavo did. But someone else >>> >> > left >>> >> > without a single word. What kind of respect is that? >>> >> > >>> >> > I admire your honesty. You do care, Jonathan. Otherwise, you >>> wouldn't >>> >> > spend >>> >> > time to write to me, right? so, I see that where it is coming from >>> and I >>> >> > have NO problem with that. Even though your bring it to public, I >>> don't >>> >> > mind. >>> >> > >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> -- >>> >> >> Jonathan Aquilina >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > Sorry for the LONG email but I did this so we can END this right >>> here >>> >> > and >>> >> > right now. NO talking about the past. Let's move forward. >>> >> > >>> >> > I already have Plan B, C, D, etc. >>> >> > I'll NOT rush things. >>> >> > >>> >> > Here is my request for now: >>> >> > I will NEVER ask anyone here to leave and I do HATE to see anyone >>> >> > leaves. >>> >> > You may all stay for now as volunteers. Once we have a clear solid >>> >> > visible >>> >> > roadmap, we can see about that. >>> >> > >>> >> > Do not leave unless you feel so. >>> >> > I will not ask you to leave. Every word you contribute with is >>> helpful. >>> >> > I >>> >> > have my own vision and I find everyone here is useful, even though >>> >> > he/she is >>> >> > not doing anything at this moment, his/her moment will come. >>> >> > >>> >> > If we wish to carry on, we should let the past go and turn the page. >>> >> > Learn >>> >> > from our mistakes for sure. >>> >> > If you wish to be stuck in the past, the present will be lost and >>> so the >>> >> > future. >>> >> > >>> >> > Your call :) >>> >> > >>> >> > And this email for everyone, not for Jonathan nor someone, it is for >>> >> > everyone to read. >>> >> > >>> >> > -- >>> >> > Remember: "All of us are smarter than any one of us." >>> >> > Best Regards, >>> >> > Ali/amjjawad >>> >> > http://torios.org - StartUbuntu - Ubuntu GNOME - >>> http://amjjawad.net >>> >> > >>> >> > -- >>> >> > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kibo-project >>> >> > Post to : kibo-project@lists.launchpad.net >>> >> > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kibo-project >>> >> > More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp >>> >> > >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> -- >>> >> Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius, >>> >> power and magic in it. - Goethe >>> >> >>> >> Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't >>> >> matter and those who matter don't mind. - Dr.Seuss >>> >> >>> >> Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that >>> >> counts can be counted. - Albert Einstein >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > -- >>> > Remember: "All of us are smarter than any one of us." >>> > Best Regards, >>> > Ali/amjjawad >>> > http://torios.org - StartUbuntu - Ubuntu GNOME - http://amjjawad.net >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius, >>> power and magic in it. - Goethe >>> >>> Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't >>> matter and those who matter don't mind. - Dr.Seuss >>> >>> Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that >>> counts can be counted. - Albert Einstein >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Jonathan Aquilina >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Regards >> >> -Israel >> ToriOS Team >> >> >> -- >> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kibo-project >> Post to : kibo-project@lists.launchpad.net >> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kibo-project >> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp >> >> > > > -- > Jonathan Aquilina > > > > -- > Regards > > -Israel > ToriOS Team > > > -- > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kibo-project > Post to : kibo-project@lists.launchpad.net > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kibo-project > More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp > > -- Remember: "All of us are smarter than any one of us." Best Regards, Ali/amjjawad <https://wiki.ubuntu.com/amjjawad> http://torios.org - StartUbuntu <https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StartUbuntu> - Ubuntu GNOME <http://ubuntugnome.org/> - http://amjjawad.net
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