On Thu, Jul 18, 2019 at 12:38 PM Daniel Mensinger <dan...@mensinger-ka.de> wrote: > > On Thu, 18 Jul 2019 12:18:43 +0200 > Harald Sitter <sit...@kde.org> wrote: > > > On Thu, Jul 18, 2019 at 8:46 AM Christophe Giboudeaux > > <christo...@krop.fr> wrote: > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > On mercredi 17 juillet 2019 23:09:13 CEST Daniel Mensinger wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > I am forwarding my original question about the meson trademark / > > > > license to kde-devel because I was told that more people with > > > > licensing experience will see this here. > > > > > > > > > > > > Meson's logo is (C) Jussi Pakkanen and used by the Meson project with > > > > > specific permission. It is not licensed under the same terms as the > > > > > rest > > > > > of the project. > > > > > > > > > > If you are a third party and want to use the Meson logo, you must > > > > > first > > > > > must obtain written permission from Jussi Pakkanen. > > > > Jussi Pakkanen has no problem with giving a special permission for > > > > KDevelop (similar to the VS Code meson plugin), but I first would > > > > like to know if including an icon with such a "license" is OK for > > > > KDevelop. > > > > > > > > > > This doesn't give any information on the logo license and what it allows/ > > > restricts/forbids. Answering your question is impossible without the > > > license > > > text. > > > > Well, that's not really true, in absence of anything it's "all rights > > reserved" and that are **unfree** licensing terms unsuitable for us. > > Plus, the website explicitly tells us it's all rights reserved. > > > > So, the answer certainly is: it is not OK to use because it is unfree. > > > > There are two huge caveat to this though: > > a) "fair-use" exceptions may apply and make the use OK, but I don't > > think that's the case and in any event the fair-use provisions AFAIU > > are not the same across the world > > b) a trademark may limit freeness despite copyright being free. as is > > the case for all free software projects (KDE included). so, > > all-rights-reserved probably is fine as well **but** only with a whole > > bunch of provisions (i.e. an informal license ;)) > > > > It may actually be best to consult distributions on the matter, since > > they ultimately will need to be allowed to distribute binaries. > > I know debian has a whole bunch of policies on the matter. > > > > From the github ticket I get the impression what Jussi actually wants > > is trademark protection though and currently he's simply using > > copyright protection in lieu of trademark protection? e.g. KDE's logo > > is trademark protected, but the actual artwork is licensed LGPL. so > > you may copy and edit the svg to your hearts content, but you cannot > > use it to misrepresent endorsement from KDE for example. > > > > (grain of salt on all of the above of course) > > > > HS > > Thanks for the detailed explanation. So, if I understand this correctly, > the icon would have to be licensed under something like the LGPL. > Alternatively, if meson would add a fair use section (maybe similar to > QT https://www.qt.io/trademark/) this would also work (even with the > "all rights reserved" statement)?
I would certainly think so. That is what all the existing projects do from what I can see. I need to point out that this is not an either-or situation though. There are two things at play here: copyright and trademark. Artwork is subject to copyright protection, it applies to the artistic creation. The subject the artwork depicts may also be protected as a trademark, for example when the artwork includes the logo of a company. They are not the same thing and have different implications. [1] looks like a good read on the topic. For the logo to be usable by us it needs to have its copyright licensed so it becomes free to use/distribute/edit, e.g. under the LGPL. That does not lift protections of the trademark. Now for the trademark I honestly don't know what needs doing ideally. It's certainly not a bad idea to clearly state what is and isn't allowed as is done on the trademark page of Qt, but I'm not sure it's technically necessary to do so. Trademark laws have a whole bunch of use exceptions which may be applicable here already to make it fine to use. Generally trademark protections are about preventing other companies to impersonate or misrepresent your "brand", which is not what we do in kdevelop I'd guess ^^ [1] https://www.upcounsel.com/trademark-vs-copyright HS
