> On March 22, 2011, 6:23 p.m., John Layt wrote:
> > My thoughts are if the anonymous tickbox is first focus it should be above
> > the username/password fields and the username/password fields should be
> > disabled if anonymous is selected. But that may look a little weird with
> > the text to the left and the title below it.
> >
> > Or does entering a username/password automatically de-select the anonymous?
> > In which case this is fine so long as the username field has the cursor
> > focus and pressing enter immediately activates the ok button.
> >
> > Or perhaps pre-populate username with 'anonymous' and have the word
> > pre-selected so it can be overtyped and do away with the tickbox entirely?
> >
> > Basically what I'm looking for is the easiest shortest most obvious path
> > for the main use cases.
> >
> > </bikeshedding>
>
> Thomas Lübking wrote:
> > the anonymous tickbox is first focus it should be above the
> username/password
> +1
>
> > username/password fields should be disabled if anonymous is selected
> the problem is about checking the box will disable the UI.
>
> can we maybe drop the checkbox entirely and just
> QLinedit::setPlaceholderText("anonymous") and
> QLinedit::setPlaceholderText("no password required for anonymous login") or
> sth. like this?
>
> The tab order can btw be controlled explicitly and unrelated to the
> actual layout.
>
> Dawit Alemayehu wrote:
> > Or does entering a username/password automatically de-select the
> anonymous? In which case this is fine so long as the username field has the
> cursor focus and pressing enter
> > immediately activates the ok button.
>
> Nope. You have to manually deselect the checkbox to enter the
> username/password. Otherwise, those input widgets will be set to read only.
>
> > Basically what I'm looking for is the easiest shortest most obvious
> path for the main use cases.
>
> Unfortunately, that is the problem. This feature does not solve any main
> use case. Rather it seems to have been added to deal with a very corner case
> in specific ioslaves, ftp being the main or only?? one.
>
> > can we maybe drop the checkbox entirely and just
> QLinedit::setPlaceholderText("anonymous") and
> QLinedit::setPlaceholderText("no password required for anonymous
> > login") or sth. like this?
>
> Well, it seems that the anonymous checkbox was specifically added to
> distinguish between the default "anonymous" login and a user entered
> "anonymous" user name for the ftp ioslave. At least that is what I get
> reading the commit message in the ftp ioslave that seems to be related to
> this checkbox [1]. As such, I fail to see how the placeholder text approach
> would satisfy what the checkbox is attempting to achieve. However, I
> personally do not think that checkbox should exist at all. It is there to
> handle a very corner case for very specific ioslaves (mainly ftp ioslave).
> Even then it seems to be used incorrectly right now. Anyhow, I like the
> placeholder idea but I will serve the same purpose as the checkbox.
>
> > The tab order can btw be controlled explicitly and unrelated to the
> actual layout.
>
> Right, but the checkbox will still look out of place where it is right
> now.
>
>
>
>
> [1]
> http://quickgit.kde.org/?p=kdelibs.git&a=commit&h=2e48eecc2fda83f08fb5f55519fe51793f536734
>
> John Layt wrote:
> Looking at the api and code, the Anonymous tickbox is only displayed if
> the ShowAnonymousLoginCheckBox flag is set, and the default value of the
> tickbox is set by calling setAnonymousMode(), so it is a corner case that is
> enabled by the client. Most of the time the tickbox will not be displayed.
> When it is displayed I think it needs to be more prominent as you are
> effectively choosing a mode, so if you keep the tickbox it does need to be
> _above_ the username field. If the anonymous mode is enabled, then the
> tickbox needs first focus, if it is not enabled and no username is preset
> then the username needs first focus, if the username is set or if it is
> protected then the password needs first focus (most of this already happens).
>
> I like the placeholder idea, but I don't think it can be made to work
> with the existing api, e.g. if both setAnonymousMode(true) and
> setUsername("Bob") are called by the client then it won't work.
>
> So we just need to figure out a non-ugly way for the tickbox to be above
> the Username. The ugliest part at the moment is having the tickbox in the
> label column which is not HIG compliant, it needs to be in the same column as
> the text entry boxes. To look even neater I'd be tempted to put a text label
> to the left of the tickbox, either "Login:", or "Username:" and hide the
> label on the actual Username box. Have a play :-)
>
> Aurélien Gâteau wrote:
> Maybe using radio buttons instead of a checkbox would help? I am thinking
> about something like this:
>
> ( ) Anonymous Login
> (*) Authenticated Login
>
> Login: [_______________]
> Password: [_______________]
>
> Thomas Lübking wrote:
> Since we cannot avoid the checkbox, what about attaching it to the
> "Username" label.
> The anon-enabled login would then only differ by the preset, empty line
> handling and this checkbox.
>
> ui dummy (lacks a little smartness regarding the pw placeholder and the
> login content)
> http://pastebin.com/NikPB1PJ
>
> Dawit Alemayehu wrote:
> Hmm... I think we are now over thinking this and trying to be too smart
> about it when it really should not be the case. The placement of the "Login
> anonymously" should be equivalent to where the "Remember password" checkbox
> is for a number of very valid reasons:
>
> #1. Both of them are options, not requirements, and their effects apply
> equally to both inputs, i.e. the username and the password. "Remember
> password" is not limited to just remembering the password.
>
> #2. In the normal use case, both are final acts the user would likely
> perform before dismissing the dialog box. That is click on the checkboxes and
> press Ok or Cancel.
>
> Thomas, I can tell you that your approach is a non-starter because the
> login in anonymously right now is a corner case for a single ioslave (ftp)
> right now and the password dialog is more generic. It is used by many
> applications for different purposes. Hence, optimizing for this minor use
> case does not make sense.
>
> Perhaps if I explain under what circumstance this checkbox will be shown
> in the immediate future, it will clarify the use case for all. The only time
> this checkbox will be visible to the end user is when {s}he types a username
> as part of the url, i.e. ftp://<user>@<host>. Otherwise, the anonymous login
> will have been automatically be tried by the ftp ioslave before the user is
> prompted for credentials. In which case of course it simply means that the
> anonymous login was rejected by the server. As such, there is absolutely no
> point in giving the user the option to retry the same thing that failed just
> now. This means the "login anonymously" checkbox will only be available to
> the user under very limited circumstances ; no to mention only one ioslave at
> the moment. This is why I argued it should not have been implemented in the
> first place. However, whomever implemented it, saw the need/use-case for it.
>
> Anyhow, I just want someone to explain to me why where I placed the
> checkbox in the first place is inappropriate based on what I just described
> above. Anonymous login was never intended to have a prominent role as seems
> to be assumed by most of you. IMO, it should by no means interfere with the
> normal workings of the password dialog. That would be true if there were many
> more ioslaves requiring this functionality. It is even more so when only one
> needs and uses it right now.
>
> Thomas Lübking wrote:
> From a GUI design pov the box is wrong because it adds a horizontal
> structure to an otherwise pure vertical one (no, the buttonbar doesn't count
> ;-)
>
> However,
> > Perhaps if I explain under what circumstance this checkbox will be shown
> On this background the entire thing is -as you suspected- flawed.
>
> a) Placeholders don't work since there's content (attempted login) or
> (iff, in doubt) anon is for sure wrong.
> b) The checkbox does NOT belong next to the "store PW" box, since that is
> a persistent setting while the former one is (hopefully, the option is likely
> wrong ;-) a temporary option - also it's mutually exclusive to all other UI
> elements.
> c) The dialog should stress that the attempted login has /failed/ and
> therefore one has to
> c1) provide better login data and click ok (which would ideally read
> "login", problem solution #1) or
> c2) suggest "Try anon login" in a pushbutton (problem solution #2) -
> NOT in a checkbox. It's no longer an option but a completely other action to
> resolve the initial problem. (from a user POV - that it uses the same
> codepath with different parameters doesn't matter)
>
> Updated dummy (notice that the buttonbar is no real buttonbar, since i
> don#t know how to change the text w/ designer only ;-)
> http://pastebin.com/qvisH1Vv
>
> John Layt wrote:
> I think you're missing that KPasswordDialog is supposed to be a generic
> but configurable dialog for use by any application to obtain a users
> credentials for whatever purposes they need, not just for use by kio slaves
> logging into ftp servers. The anonymous feature was added in 2008 long
> before the patch you point to tweaking its behaviour. You can't design the
> dialog based solely on the single special case you know about in kio-ftp
> where it is displayed in response to a failure to login as anonymous. You
> have to think about what happens when an application deliberately wants to
> ask the user to choose between anonymous and username login to ANYTHING and
> so chooses to enable the option. The first thing needed in that case is for
> the user to choose between anonymous and username, not the last. This should
> be the default behaviour if anonymous is enabled, with the app able to choose
> if it is selected by default or not. If it isn't selected then focus moves
> to the username.
>
> If the kio-ftp is a special use case of the anonymous feature then it
> needs to be catered for in a special way consistent with the generic use case
> of the dialog. Perhaps look at using the showErrorMessage() api call to add
> the message about anonymous failing, default the anonymous tickbox to enabled
> but not selected, and so the username takes first focus so the user can enter
> the details they need, completely bypassing the anonymous selection box while
> leaving it there should they want to try again (as futile as that may seem).
> This solves your use case cleanly while preserving the general case.
>
> Using radio button may be a solution, but I don't think it's much better
> visually, you still get the mismatch between widgets with text on the left
> and right sides, and it's an extra thing to tab through to firstly turn
> anonymous off and then to get to the username. I like the look of the
> Anonymous and Login buttons provided they fit the various sizes needed, it
> solves the text alignment issue and reduces clutter, but I'd need to do
> walk-through's of the scenarios to make sure it would be consistent with
> existing behaviour and api options.
>
> You asked what was wrong with your design? It does look tidy visually
> but functionally it is the wrong position. Besides it really being the first
> decision not the last as I explained above, the position suggests it's a
> minor option related to passwords and saving passwords. Think also of the
> tab order if it's enabled and selected by default, you have to have a funny
> tab order where you start at the tickbox then jump back up to the username
> then down to password and then the OK, it just doesn't flow following the
> natural visual path of top-to-bottom and left-to-right (or rtl) that people
> expect.
>
> John Layt wrote:
> http://i.imgur.com/THJfp.png
Please give an example other than FTP which allows anonymous login. Anonymous
login is an anachronism. It's a workaround for a protocol which does not work
without login.
Also, kdelibs is the wrong group for reviewing this. Please take it to
kde-usability.
- Ingo
-----------------------------------------------------------
This is an automatically generated e-mail. To reply, visit:
http://git.reviewboard.kde.org/r/100920/#review2106
-----------------------------------------------------------
On March 22, 2011, 6:04 p.m., Dawit Alemayehu wrote:
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------
> This is an automatically generated e-mail. To reply, visit:
> http://git.reviewboard.kde.org/r/100920/
> -----------------------------------------------------------
>
> (Updated March 22, 2011, 6:04 p.m.)
>
>
> Review request for kdelibs.
>
>
> Summary
> -------
>
> The attached patch renames and moves the "Anonymous" box shown in the first
> screenshot below the password input widgets. This change is done to
>
> #1. Remove the checkbox from screwing tab order when you enter
> username/password.
> #2. Make the purpose of the checkbox less cryptic to the end user.
>
> Any objections ?
>
>
> Diffs
> -----
>
> kdeui/dialogs/kpassworddialog.ui 2649870
>
> Diff: http://git.reviewboard.kde.org/r/100920/diff
>
>
> Testing
> -------
>
>
> Screenshots
> -----------
>
> Current Password Dialog
> http://git.reviewboard.kde.org/r/100920/s/106/
> New Password Dialog
> http://git.reviewboard.kde.org/r/100920/s/107/
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Dawit
>
>
