Very interesting. I don't have a great trust of Autodesk either. (It's hard when they keep violating their customers with forced upgrades.)
SS On 7/11/07, Larry Becker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi Sunburned, > > I actually got on board with DWF back in 1995 when AutoDesk first > introduced the WHIP! web browser plug-in. I got the "free" SDK and > started developing an application based on it. Imagine my surprise > when I got a letter from AutoDesk saying that they were revoking the > licenses of all developers using their product. This pretty much > killed DWF for a decade. I see that it is making a comeback lately, > but it has still left a bad taste in my mouth. I have a hard time now > trusting any format that isn't truly free in the FSF sense. (Yes, DXF > isn't free either, but it isn't going away soon in CAD circles > either.) > > regards, > Larry > > > On 7/11/07, Sunburned Surveyor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Larry wrote: "Our users typically produce maps for limited distribution in > > two > > different formats: DXF and PDF. It also may be printed on either a > > standard printer or a large size plotter in order to study it more > > closely or prepare for a meeting with a client. > > > > The advantage of the DXF distribution is that it can be opened in free > > CAD viewers which have exact measurement tools. The advantage of the > > PDF is that it is ready to print and everyone understands it." > > > > I have been exploring the use of DWF as a means for distributing CAD > > data as an alternative to PDF. Autodesk has made the DWF viewer and > > WXF writer available for free, and more importantly the DWF file > > format is available in a published spec. DWF allows for easy printing, > > measurment in the drawing with snaps, and markup/commmenting tools. > > > > Just a thought... > > > > The Sunburned Surveyor > > > > > > On 7/8/07, Larry Becker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > I would be interested in the perceptual limit. > > > > > > Our users typically produce maps for limited distribution in two > > > different formats: DXF and PDF. It also may be printed on either a > > > standard printer or a large size plotter in order to study it more > > > closely or prepare for a meeting with a client. > > > > > > The advantage of the DXF distribution is that it can be opened in free > > > CAD viewers which have exact measurement tools. The advantage of the > > > PDF is that it is ready to print and everyone understands it. > > > > > > The disadvantage of PDF is its limited usefulness for viewing on > > > screen. Zooming is limited and graphics tend to look "chuncky" and > > > imprecise. This is why I am trying to improve the printing quality to > > > PDF. The current output looks somewhat unprofessional. > > > > > > regards, > > > Larry > > > > > > On 7/8/07, Stefan Steiniger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > The only thing that will make the SVG look different will > > > > > be a different styling. The right sizes of the graphical > > > > > attributes must have a physical measure. The output medium > > > > > has to have a physical measure. Than you can determine the > > > > > right scales. > > > > > > > > do you think that is possible? Since every printer has his own physical > > > > limits one probably needs to look for the printer settings... a bit > > > > tricky for different platforms? (ok.. at the end there is always a > > > > rastering, if one does not use pen-plotters..., so a solution may be to > > > > let the user define a DPI value in *JUMP). > > > > The other thing i can remark is that the human has perceptual limits to > > > > see something. I can post this minimum "mm" thresholds teached in > > > > cartography if somebody is interested. > > > > > > > > stefan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What we need is a concept of a physical size based output device. > > > > > Renderers must be aware of this. This leads to a lot of refactoring. > > > > > As an alternative we can build a complete new rendering path, > > > > > which has to be consistent with the old one. WYSIWYG is another > > > > > word that comes to mind. What if someone add a new Layerable with > > > > > new Renderers? Should she or he implement the same logic twice? > > > > > > > > > > - Sascha > > > > > > > > > > Sunburned Surveyor schrieb: > > > > >> Larry, > > > > >> > > > > >> I know it is very easy to convert to SVG by using the JTS graphics > > > > >> painted on the LayerViewPanel and the Batik libs. > > > > >> > > > > >> I wonder if some of the problems could be eliminated by using the JTS > > > > >> Goemetries and Layer styling information to convert directly to SVG. > > > > >> > > > > >> Just a thought. > > > > >> > > > > >> The Sunburned Surveyor > > > > >> > > > > >> On 6/29/07, Larry Becker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > >>> More surprises (for me). Someone stop me if this is already > > > > >>> documented. If you set the line width to zero, you get very faint > > > > >>> lines. The documentation for BasicStroke says, "If width is set to > > > > >>> 0.0f, the stroke is rendered as the thinnest possible line for the > > > > >>> target device and the antialias hint setting." > > > > >>> > > > > >>> Apparently when you create a new layer, the line width defaults to > > > > >>> 1. > > > > >>> I never noticed that you could drag it left to 0, or if I did I must > > > > >>> have assumed it was an error. > > > > >>> > > > > >>> This could be very handy when you are printing and the lines are > > > > >>> showing up too wide on the print device, or just when you have a lot > > > > >>> of linestrings very close together. > > > > >>> > > > > >>> regards, > > > > >>> Larry > > > > >>> > > > > >>> On 6/28/07, Larry Becker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > >>>> Interesting... It turns out that when rendering antialiased lines, > > > > >>>> Java2D actually draws lines with fractional widths as shown in the > > > > >>>> attached JumpWindow screen capture. This would make it possible to > > > > >>>> modify the Change Style line width slider to support floating point > > > > >>>> values that represent very thin lines. > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> Larry > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> On 6/28/07, Larry Becker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > >>>>> To give a better idea of problem (1), I have attached two jpegs. > > > > >>>>> They > > > > >>>>> were made by doing a screen capture within Inkscape while zoomed > > > > >>>>> to > > > > >>>>> 800%. They are labeled before and after and show the effects of > > > > >>>>> scaling the line width by 0.1 in BasicStyle setLineWidth(). The > > > > >>>>> SVG > > > > >>>>> files were created using Stefan's "Print Image in SVG Format." > > > > >>>>> Other > > > > >>>>> printing plug-ins may already be implementing their own solutions. > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> regards, > > > > >>>>> Larry Becker > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> On 6/26/07, Sunburned Surveyor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > >>>>>> Larry, > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> This is a great post. Thanks for documenting some of the > > > > >>>>>> problems we > > > > >>>>>> are having with the rendering system. Perhaps I need to take a > > > > >>>>>> crack > > > > >>>>>> at these with my pluggable renderering system, instead of stand > > > > >>>>>> alone > > > > >>>>>> labels. I'll give this some thought. > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> The Sunburned Surveyor > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> On 6/25/07, Larry Becker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > >>>>>>> The purpose of this thread is to document problems with > > > > >>>>>>> BasicStyle > > > > >>>>>>> rendering that primarily affect the quality of printing plug-ins > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> Problem (1): > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> BasicStyle lineStroke defaults to width 1. See Geoff's "About > > > > >>>>>>> Line > > > > >>>>>>> Decorations and Printing" thread in the archives: > > > > >>>>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/msg00075.html > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> Proposed solution (1.A): > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> The problem seems to me that JUMP is starting out with the line > > > > >>>>>>> width > > > > >>>>>>> way too large. In other applications I have used much smaller > > > > >>>>>>> default > > > > >>>>>>> line widths. In order to do this we would need to modify > > > > >>>>>>> BasicStyle.setLineWidth(int lineWidth) to use a float instead > > > > >>>>>>> of an > > > > >>>>>>> int and change setLineWidth(1) to setLineWidth(0.1) or something > > > > >>>>>>> smaller in the constructor. > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> Problem (2): > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> The relative scale of symbols and text changes when changing > > > > >>>>>>> from > > > > >>>>>>> screen resolution to printer resolution. See Geoff's ""Re: > > > > >>>>>>> [JPP-Devel] JumpPrinter" thread in the archives: > > > > >>>>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/jump-pilot-devel@lists.sourceforge.net/msg00998.html > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> Proposed solution (2.A): > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> I haven't thought this one through very well, but it would seem > > > > >>>>>>> that > > > > >>>>>>> we need to have some sort of renderer DPI setting (there's > > > > >>>>>>> those pesky > > > > >>>>>>> english units again). Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be > > > > >>>>>>> any > > > > >>>>>>> Java2D support for this concept that I could find, so we would > > > > >>>>>>> probably have to implement the scaling ourselves. Someone else > > > > >>>>>>> may > > > > >>>>>>> have already thought of a better solution. > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> There are probably other printer related rendering problems I > > > > >>>>>>> haven't > > > > >>>>>>> heard about. > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> regards, > > > > >>>>>>> Larry Becker > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> -- > > > > >>>>>>> http://amusingprogrammer.blogspot.com/ > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express > > > > > Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take > > > > > control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. > > > > > http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > Jump-pilot-devel mailing list > > > > > Jump-pilot-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > > > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jump-pilot-devel > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express > > > > Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take > > > > control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. > > > > http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Jump-pilot-devel mailing list > > > > Jump-pilot-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jump-pilot-devel > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > http://amusingprogrammer.blogspot.com/ > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express > > > Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take > > > control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. > > > http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Jump-pilot-devel mailing list > > > Jump-pilot-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jump-pilot-devel > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express > > Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take > > control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. > > http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ > > _______________________________________________ > > Jump-pilot-devel mailing list > > Jump-pilot-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jump-pilot-devel > > > > > -- > http://amusingprogrammer.blogspot.com/ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express > Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take > control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. > http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ > _______________________________________________ > Jump-pilot-devel mailing list > Jump-pilot-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jump-pilot-devel > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ _______________________________________________ Jump-pilot-devel mailing list Jump-pilot-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jump-pilot-devel
