2016-01-19 20:03 GMT+02:00 Arvids Godjuks <arvids.godj...@gmail.com>:
> Hello to everyone. > > The Draft states: > > "This Code of Conduct applies both within project spaces and in public > spaces when an individual is representing the project or its community." > > TL;DR: Just no. > > Long version: > > What is the definition of "representing project or it's community". If I > make a single commit that get's accepted to the project, and then I say > something 3 years down the line about the project (in this case PHP), do I > still represent the project or it's community? Or I have added to > conversations on this mailing list for years now, does that mean i'm a > contributor now and I'm responsible for anything I say about the project or > it's community going forward? > And what is PHP community? It's not like PHP community is a tight group - > it's huge, with tens of millions of people at least all over the world. > > This is especially a worry for me, because I run a PHP conference, and > people come to speak to it. I do not want to deal with people dictating me > "I want you to pull this person because his views on blah are bla bla bla > and that is unacceptable". I do not care about the persons views on any > subject, unless: > a). It breakes the laws of my country (hate speech, harassment, gender > discrimination and all that stuff that is actually covered by laws). > b). The person goes into issues, that are not the topic of the conference. > c). Behaves in a way, that is not acceptable in the society (personal > insults, unacceptable language, and so on). > And what if I actually agree with that person in my own views? And why > someone thinks he has the right to dictate what views are acceptable and > witch are not? (i'm not talking about issues, that are universally > unacceptable to talk about). > > Regarding c) - you should remember, that in different parts of the world > the social norms vary - from slightly to moderate between western cultures, > to quite a lot for asian/latin american/african/etc. . Every country is > different, especially those, that are quite far apart. That means that > people will be doing things, that are totally acceptable and are the norm > in their country, when they are preforming at the local conference, but > will probably trigger a storm somewhere else, and that may result in things > going horribly wrong. > > So, as far as my personal opinion goes, CoC has to apply only to project > spaces in full, and for the public spaces it has to have a clear > definition, when CoC applies. I really do not want to see situation like > they happened in other projects, when a person can be booted off the > project just because he does not support some trending new thing in social > areas (pick any social issue in recent 20 years), but is absolutely a model > member of the project. This is a tech project, not a social gathering to > impose social trends and rallying support for social issues. > > * Any personal opinions on any subject not directly related to the project > itself should be out of the scope of CoC. This has to be written in from > the start, otherwise people will find a way to exploit it to generate > controversy and drama on the subjects that are not related to the PHP > project. > * CoC should clearly state that it is designed only to handle the conduct > in project channels and official representation of the project. The > representation part should be defined. > * Any requests coming in on the issues, that are not directly related to > the PHP project itself, should be outright rejected. In case of abuse > (trying to re-open the issues) the access should be restricted if that's > technically possible. > > Otherwise, as history shows, the rules are abused sooner or later. And the > amount of controversy we have around PHP every minor and major release, > that's a given. > > Above written is a rough thought list on the subject. Proposed CoC is too > generic and allows for a lot of loopholes. We should really take out time, > read up on the issues that did happen on other projects (and there are a > lot of those), and not making a mistake of adopting a general CoC. Personal > life's have nothing to do with the PHP project. Personal thoughts expressed > outside of the project are just that - personal. And here in Europe, we > have quite strict laws about personal stuff too, so even bringing up issues > like "that person thinks that ... that he said to me in a personal > conversation" are subject to laws, that prohibit this explicitly. > > Thank your for your time, > Arvids. > One more thing: the CoC should really not allow for things to happen like in this story: http://blog.randi.io/2015/12/31/the-developer-formerly-known-as-freebsdgirl/ - is it true or not, and is there something else to it - isn't the point. This is just an example of what CoC should not allow to happen. Ever.
