On Mon, Oct 7, 2013 at 5:30 PM, Johannes Schlüter <johan...@schlueters.de> wrote: > On Mon, 2013-10-07 at 15:55 +0100, Joe Watkins wrote: > >> The observation that even a small patch has an impact, or can have an >> impact is valid. But then to talk about adoption time turns your >> reasoning a bit circular: adoption does take time, if we want for >> adoption to take place then the earlier a patch gets merged the better, >> regardless of the complexity of the patch. > > The issue is not that we are adding a single patch the issue is that we > recently change the language in a rapid pace. > >> I did see your "rant", though it's not really a rant; perfectly valid >> observations. Still, I don't know what you hope to achieve by pointing >> out the differences between the development of C or Java, and PHP: >> progress plotted on a graph nobody would expect to see any kind of >> relationship or commonality between these languages. So while they are >> valid observations they aren't really relevant. > > It is the only metric I have to answer comments if the sort "oh, PHP is > developing so slowly" while we are fast in changing the language.
We do not change the language. We improve it. Changing the language implies that one has to change his existing code or application to get them run on a new release. That's not the case between 5.4 and 5.5, and should not be between 5.5 and 5.6. However we are not fast or slow, we only fill gaps with other modern languages. > What we i.e. don't do is trying to adopt our "standard library" to new > paradigms being introduced. Also after changing the language we don't > really check how this impacts new languages features. Maybe generators > have an impact on the way anonymous classes should be designed? etc. I > guess most here look at this with a PHP 5.2/5.3 mindset, not 5.5 or at > least 5.4. That's a good point and that's why we have RFCs. We have to review the impacts of a new feature, discuss the possible issues (design, BC, etc.). > that all said: > >> The bug count is a bit shameful, some effort should obviously be spent >> on bugs ... > > This is the actual point here: We as a community at large should imo > focus more on fixing bugs instead of creating new ones. A project focusing only on fixing bugs and does not implement new features is a dead project, they only don't know it yet. > If we could > spend more of the time we spend on discussing new things on actually > fixing bugs instead it is my unproven subjective claim that we'd make > more people happy than by any "syntax sugar". I think it is somehow not correct to say that. My team participates in a lot of discussions, we test all RFCs, before they end in the voting phase, continuously. We fix bugs, tons of bugs. We report bugs too. And many other developers do so as well. On the other hand some developers discuss/argue a lot while not fixing bugs at all nor developing new features. There are also developers being better at developing new features rather than doing QA. That's all good and we should try to figure out a way to work better together instead of blocking each other. Cheers, -- Pierre @pierrejoye | http://www.libgd.org -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
