Rasmus, I'm looking at that first chart you linked to, the one about real world Wordpress performance. It has three lines on it. The terrible one is standard PHP without a bytecode cache. Nobody in their right mind runs PHP without a bytecode cache. It's only there to make the chart look more exciting.
The second one is standard PHP (the Zend VM) with Wincache. Wincache is a Microsoft-supplied alternative to APC for the Windows platform. Fine by me since APC seemed semi-orphaned on Windows the last time I checked. Whatever, a bytecode cache is a bytecode cache. The third line is Phalanger. And yes, it's a little faster than standard PHP with a reasonable cache installed. But not much. The micro-benchmarks for individual features are more interesting, but I'd like to know why they don't matter so much in practice. On Fri, Dec 9, 2011 at 8:58 AM, Rasmus Schultz <ras...@mindplay.dk> wrote: > You want to compare Mono performance to .NET performance - I'm sorry, but I > don't see how that's even relevant? > > Your benchmark would be relevant if I was proposing you write a PHP > interpreter and run that on Mono. > > What I'm proposing (and what Phalanger does) is to compile PHP code to CLR > bytecode, and running it directly on the VM - I'm not saying run an > interpreter under the VM. That would be pointless. > > So what you should be comparing, is Mono performance against PHP > performance. What you should be comparing is probably something closer to > this: > > http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/u64q/performance.php?test=spectralnorm > > (and I realize of course that CLR bytecode derived from a dynamic language > like PHP was have a considerably higher runtime overhead than that of a > static language like C#, but it should still be orders of magnitude faster > than an interpreter.) > > According to the chart you mentioned, Mono performance on Linux is > comparable to that of Java - which has performed adequately to support a > very large industry and thousands of languages. > > Sure, .NET is orders of magnitude faster than that. But it is optimized for > a single platform, and if we're looking at cross-platform VM alternatives, > your two best choices are Mono and Java - .NET should not even be in that > chart, except for the sake of argument that Mono has room for optimization > still. > > Also, according to your chart, Mono has considerably lower memory usage, > which could be relevant when running highly parallelized applications such > as web-services. > > Here's another chart I'm sure you've all seen, comparing the Windows build > of PHP to Phalanger: > > http://www.php-compiler.net/benchmarks > > Yes, performance is worse under Linux - probably around half the speed you > get under .NET on Windows. Does that mean it's going to be slower under > Mono than the Zend VM? I would say not likely. But I guess we'll have to > wait for a Linux PHP vs Linux Phalanger benchmark to know for sure... > > - Rasmus > > > On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 7:16 PM, Rasmus Lerdorf <ras...@lerdorf.com> wrote: > >> On 12/08/2011 03:53 PM, Rasmus Lerdorf wrote: >> > This is a complete non-starter. The bulk of PHP users are on >> > non-Windows, especially Linux, and Mono performance on Linux is really >> > not good. Last time I checked it was an order of magnitude slower on >> > Linux compared to the same hardware running Windows. Granted that was >> > quite a few years ago now and I assume it is no longer 10x slower. >> > Perhaps it is up to 4x or even 2x slower. >> >> Here are some more recent numbers to back that up: >> >> http://www.codeproject.com/KB/dotnet/RuntimePerformance.aspx >> >> Basically what you are suggesting is that we replace the Green bar there >> with the Grey one. Note that lower is better. This does show that Mono >> performance is starting to approach .Net performance, at least for this >> benchmark, but it still isn't there. And if you look through the various >> benchmarks you will see that native C/C++ code is 5-10x faster than the >> same code running under Mono. >> >> -Rasmus >> >> -- Tom Boutell P'unk Avenue 215 755 1330 punkave.com window.punkave.com -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
