hi Stas, On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 8:12 AM, Stas Malyshev <smalys...@sugarcrm.com> wrote:
> Nobody's "denying voice" to anybody. Anybody who's interested can feel free > to come to the list and bring forward their arguments and defend them and > convince people. However, if the situation comes out that a particular > proposal failed to convince any substantial number of people who maintain > PHP and deal with it every day, or even substantial part of them think it is > a bad idea - maybe indeed it is not the best idea to have it in PHP? Or > maybe time for it has not come or it was not thought out or explained > properly? I do not think it makes sense for PHP core developers to take on > themselves to implement and maintain things that they think are wrong only > because certain number of people that they don't know voted yes. If the > proposal has merits, it should be - and usually is - possible to convince > enough people to support it. If it's not possible - maybe it's not as ready > for prime time as it appeared. There are different things we are talking about here. What is a (active) core developer? Who maintains what? Who maintains anything at all? What I see is a large gap between the reality of the needs of our users and us. Many of new RFCs have rejected (some many times) before they got accepted, only because of some core developers not understanding or not willing to have a given feature. And that even if they won't be the ones who will maintain it anyway, just like they are not the ones who maintain most of php anyway. Another problem is the limited vision or view on how PHP is actually used and where it is moving. Our communities can bring us these feedback and lead us to improve PHP so it will still be successful. Many times in the past (and today) we are just telling them that we do not care about what they need or want. We better have to change, or we can keep dreaming about our famous "let make it easy to people to contribute", it won't work as we are not willing to give them a voice. The last example of such a case is the SplClassLoader, the gap between our communities and us is getting even larger. I think it is time to consider their views and voices, especially as we get new contributors (you know, the people actually doing the job?). About who can vote, community leaders and php.net developers have the same weight. There should not be some higher voters class, be inside core devs, doc, or whatever else. It will just reproduce the horrible things we had for years where some thought they can alone decide what should be php or a specific area of the language. To avoid to get bad things in the language, there is a clause in the voting RFC requiring a larger majority. This clause applies for language changes and makes perfectly sense. In a way it should solve the core vs the world problem. Cheers, -- Pierre @pierrejoye | http://blog.thepimp.net | http://www.libgd.org -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
