Suggesting phpdoc is used for the purposes mentioned does not mean we don't understand what we're talking about.
Zeev > -----Original Message----- > From: Pierre Joye [mailto:pierre....@gmail.com] > Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2010 12:43 AM > To: Zeev Suraski > Cc: guilhermebla...@gmail.com; PHP internals > Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP 5.4 - Meta attribute (aka. Annotations) support > discussion > > hi, > > The good reason is to actually understand what we are talking about. > And seeing phpdoc mentioned in almost all replies tell me that we don't. > > On Mon, Nov 15, 2010 at 11:22 PM, Zeev Suraski <z...@zend.com> wrote: > > I don't see a point in repeating the discussion we've already had on that > topic several weeks ago. There needs to be an overwhelmingly good reason > to add a brand new syntax to the language, a whole branch of it in the case of > annotations - and there simply isn't. > > > > Zeev > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: guilhermebla...@gmail.com [mailto:guilhermebla...@gmail.com] > >> Sent: Monday, November 15, 2010 7:08 PM > >> To: PHP internals > >> Subject: [PHP-DEV] PHP 5.4 - Meta attribute (aka. Annotations) > >> support discussion > >> > >> Hi folks, > >> > >> I'll start a series of topics (in this thread) about meta attribute (aka. > >> Annotations) discussion. > >> So as soon as we agree on each topic I'll open another point to be > discussed. > >> Only when we reach some consensus I'll open another topic discussion. > >> I suggest to have a poll for each topic, so we can do some democratic > >> internals decision. I'd reduce the scope of voters to only people > >> with PHP karma. > >> > >> The first topic to be defined is: Does PHP need meta attribute support? > >> > >> Any language is built at the top of syntax, words, semantics and context. > >> We cannot define it as a language if we don't have these 4 parts well > >> fit together. > >> For a simple sentence like: I am all ears, we can easily identify these > >> parts. > >> But the real meaning of this sentence (context) is only achieved with > >> another part of the language: signifier-significate. > >> A signifier is an atomic form, material element, visible, sensitive. > >> A significate is an idea, semantic content, conceptual element, not > >> sensitive perceptive. > >> > >> This important part is only reminded when we get back to semantics, > >> specifically when talking about idiomatic expressions, a metaphor in > >> our sample. The meaning will only work if we have the context, a > >> known information. Our sentence would mean that spoker person only > >> have ears, while the true meaning is that he/she is paying attention. > >> A computer language doesn't differ from a language by any means. We > >> have tokens (words), a syntax, semantic. But the lack of > >> contextualization brings a hole on language and how your application > >> should behave. This behavior can be achieved by many different ways; > >> the simplest way is known as meta information. > >> > >> Considering you have a lack of idiomatic expressions knowledge of > >> someone that is reading. He'd think person only have ears, but if you > >> meta notify him that it is a metaphor, he'd try to find a different > >> meaning. > Example: > >> (Metaphor) I am all ears. > >> > >> Now that we find how meta-information can benefit languages, it is > >> time to understand how meta-information can benefit a computer > language. > >> > >> A good example is define a Service that validates Domain Objects. > >> Imagining a scenario where you have a User class that holds email and > >> password. Email and password fields must be validated, for example, > >> email as an email and password with at least 6 chars. A generic > >> validation service could not have the User validation hardcoded > >> inside the service, so the solution would be an external factor that > >> explains to service how to validate the DO. One of the possible > >> implementations would be a UserValidator class that contains > >> validation rules for each field. This external factor is a good > >> sample of meta-information. But how would a meta attribute would solve > this situation? > >> A Service could simple retrieve the validation instructions by > >> Reflecting the class which instance is going to be validated. > >> Basically, to validate a Domain Object, it is simply required to add > >> validation rules on desired attributes. Example: > >> > >> class User { > >> <Email Meta Information> > >> protected $email; > >> > >> <At least 6 chars Meta Information> > >> protected $password; > >> } > >> > >> *NOTE*: Please understand that this do not enter in any > >> implementation details. It is not time (yet) to talk baout docblock, new > syntax, etc. > >> Scope now is simpler than that. > >> > >> Now that is possible to see how meta attribute support could benefit > >> a language, I compiled a simple list of known projects and how can > >> they benefit of meta support: > >> - phpUnit Providing meta functionality for test cases, examples: > >> @dataProvider for test data iteration, @expectedException for > >> catching exceptions, etc. > >> - Doctrine For Object-Relational mapping, examples: @Entity, > >> @OneToOne, @Id, etc. > >> - Zend Framework Server classes Used to automate mappings for > >> XML-RPC, SOAP, etc. > >> - FLOW3 for dependency injection and validation > >> - Symfony2 for validation and routing rules > >> - Others: Validation, Functional Behavior injection (which could take > >> advantage of Traits), etc. > >> > >> > >> Poll will be opened for voting for 7 days (1 week) starting from now. > >> Poll will be closed next Monday at 5pm GMT. > >> Question: Does PHP need meta attribute support? > >> > >> Happy voting! > >> > >> -- > >> Guilherme Blanco > >> Mobile: +55 (16) 9215-8480 > >> MSN: guilhermebla...@hotmail.com > >> São Paulo - SP/Brazil > >> > >> -- > >> PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, > visit: > >> http://www.php.net/unsub.php > > > > > > > > -- > Pierre > > @pierrejoye | http://blog.thepimp.net | http://www.libgd.org -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
