Hi, On Tue, Sep 24, 2024 at 4:53 PM Bob Weinand <bobw...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On 24.9.2024 17:14:20, Christoph M. Becker wrote: > > Hi all, > > I want to suggest that we do not allow any RFC implementations to land > during beta phase. In my opinion, the remaining time to thoroughly > check and address possibly overlooked issues is way too short otherwise. > > For instance, the implementation of "Deprecate proprietary CSV escaping > mechanism"[1] landed just prior to 8.4.0beta1[2]. However, a serious > issue with that implementation had only be fixed about two weeks ago[3], > and the discussion what to do about that[4] is still unresolved. > > So in this case, the implementation would have been right in time, but > still somewhat late. > > An even more problematic example would be the "Support object type in > BCMath" RFC[5]. This has only been implemented shortly prior to > 8.4.0beta5[6], so there has been almost no time to address overlooked > issues prior to 8.4.0RC1. A pretty serious bug in the implementation[7] > has just been fixed[8] without any real chance to discuss the actual > fix. I'm not arguing that the fix should be reverted, but I'm rather > pointing out that late RFC implementations could easily lead to those > issues over and over again. > > Thoughts? > > [1]<https://wiki.php.net/rfc/deprecations_php_8_4#deprecate_proprietary_csv_escaping_mechanism> > > <https://wiki.php.net/rfc/deprecations_php_8_4#deprecate_proprietary_csv_escaping_mechanism> > [2]<https://github.com/php/php-src/commit/c818d944cf998b3151e4b312d655c51223612c4e> > > <https://github.com/php/php-src/commit/c818d944cf998b3151e4b312d655c51223612c4e> > [3]<https://github.com/php/php-src/commit/f756b96e06db29a978bbf3ad3a5c52f6d0d97c64> > > <https://github.com/php/php-src/commit/f756b96e06db29a978bbf3ad3a5c52f6d0d97c64> > [4] <https://github.com/php/php-src/pull/15569#issuecomment-2354447087> > <https://github.com/php/php-src/pull/15569#issuecomment-2354447087>ff > [5] <https://wiki.php.net/rfc/support_object_type_in_bcmath> > <https://wiki.php.net/rfc/support_object_type_in_bcmath> > [6]<https://github.com/php/php-src/commit/fad899e5662d0a929d8462dd8239b0489dd9b53f> > > <https://github.com/php/php-src/commit/fad899e5662d0a929d8462dd8239b0489dd9b53f> > [7] <https://github.com/php/php-src/issues/15968> > <https://github.com/php/php-src/issues/15968> > [8] <https://github.com/php/php-src/pull/16021> > <https://github.com/php/php-src/pull/16021> > > Christoph > > Hey Christoph, > > I certainly can see where you are coming from. But that's mostly what is > defining the beta phase - an evolving version of PHP, but where it's clear > which features will make it (i.e. all RFCs have to be accepted by then) - a > period where people can start introducing support for the next PHP version > without being surprised at yet unknown breaks. > I would actually like to see it more like the beta should be a version where all big features are implemented and just minor features and potentially ABI breaking fixes or some not too big refactoring is added. RC should be really a stable version that can be tested and only bugs are fixed in it. > I consider it important to retain the policy of submitting RFC > implementations during beta, so that implementations are not rushed and > thoroughly reviewed before being merged. The cutoff for RFCs being accepted > is the first beta, but a lot of RFC implementations don't quite yet have > the desired quality for merging. It's important to allow implementations to > mature before merging. > I would maybe suggest that we actually do cut off for RFC with the first alpha which would give alpha stage to implement it all and beta could used for potentially breaking fixes. During beta I would keep the rule that any features should be approved by RM but maybe add to it that it should be RM or CodeOwner / Maintainer (like one approval from any of those required) so there is some technical input as well in weighting those changes and it doesn't get blocked if RM's are busy. It's really just to catch some big refactoring or some risky changes. Regards Jakub
