On Mon, 10 Apr 2023 at 19:18, Pierre Joye <pierre....@gmail.com> wrote:
> hello, > > > On Sun, Apr 9, 2023, 1:37 AM Stephan Soller <stephan.sol...@helionweb.de> > wrote: > > > Hello, > > > > I'm sorry if this isn't the correct mailing list for that discussion but > I > > couldn't find a more appropriate one where people actually know how the > > wind is > > blowing. > > > > A few days ago I migrated a project from PHP 7.1 to 8.2 and the amount of > > deprecations and fatal errors spooked me a bit (details below if you're > > interested). That got me wondering about the long-term stability of PHP > > (as in > > language and API breaks) and I looked at the RFCs. I got the impression > > that > > static typing has a lot of traction now and I have no idea of what the > > fallout > > might be of changing a dynamically typed language into a statically > > typed one. > > > I keep reading this in multiple languages, pr even more frameworks. > > I understand agency work, managers pushing new features instead of a > cleaning some legacy. > > however years of ignoring deprecation notices (very few were introduced > right before 8.0). > > Most of them could have been fixed within a couple of hours in any code > base, if they had tests. > > I would suggest, very very nicely, to review and rethink the development > flows of these projects instead of asking php to freeze. > > best, > Pierre > Hello! I also want to add that PHP is purely developed by open-source contributor efforts who are limited in their numbers and not a lot of them are getting compensated for it (exceptions being specific people working for companies who have a vested interest in PHP development like JetBrains, hosting giants and some others. And now PHP Foundation is there to help people get paid for their crucial roles in PHP project and their dedicated time). You also have a world on your hands that is changing - everywhere you look things are going for a more typed approach. That's what developers of today expect. That's the reality of how modern libraries are developed and old libraries have been actively migrating to strict type code bases. This code quality improvement absolutely takes a huge load off those developers' shoulders. I'm seeing libraries out there now that basically require PHP 8.1 as a minimum because Enums are all the rage and almost half the libraries I use have introduced them in their code in the latest versions and authors just flat-out tell you "use the older version of the lib or update your project" (and I have at least 7 of them in my code already and that project will never run on anything lower than 8.2). Some of the biggest libraries out there have fully adopted SemVer and will bump the minimal PHP version quite aggressively. And will tell you to pay for commercial support or deal with it on your own. And now the Union types are coming and I expect that to get adopted at a rapid pace by everyone and their dog. Just as owning your own house means you need to do the upkeep on a yearly basis or it will become a mess, the same is with code and not maintaining it - eventually, the roof will cave in and the costs of fixing it all will skyrocket. And, frankly, this is the feeling I get from a lot of this thread - the roof has collapsed and people are put into impossible positions of "no, you can't have the time or resources to update the project to the new PHP version, here are 20 KPI's for the next 3 months you need to hit". The codebase was run on a credit of "this will be fixed down the line". Well, the debt collectors now what their debt, their late fees and lawyers want their slice of the pie. Arvīds Godjuks +371 26 851 664 arvids.godj...@gmail.com Telegram: @psihius https://t.me/psihius
