On 2026-03-16 12:03, Pekka Paalanen wrote:
> On Mon, 16 Mar 2026 10:36:44 -0400
> Harry Wentland <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On 2026-03-16 07:53, Pekka Paalanen wrote:
>>> On Mon, 16 Mar 2026 16:04:32 +0530
>>> "Borah, Chaitanya Kumar" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 3/16/2026 2:27 PM, Pekka Paalanen wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 16 Mar 2026 12:46:39 +0530
>>>>> "Borah, Chaitanya Kumar" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Pekka,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thank you for looking into the patch.
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Chaitanya!
>>>>>
>>>>> Replies inline below.
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 3/10/2026 8:02 PM, Pekka Paalanen wrote:
>>>>>>> On Fri, 6 Mar 2026 22:22:58 +0530
>>>>>>> Chaitanya Kumar Borah <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Introduce DRM_COLOROP_CSC_FF, a new colorop type representing a
>>>>>>>> fixed-function Color Space Conversion (CSC) block.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Unlike CTM-based colorops, this block does not expose programmable
>>>>>>>> coefficients. Instead, userspace selects one of the predefined
>>>>>>>> hardware modes via a new CSC_FF_TYPE enum property. Supported modes
>>>>>>>> include common YUV->RGB and RGB709->RGB2020 conversions.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Signed-off-by: Chaitanya Kumar Borah <[email protected]>
>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>> ...
>>>
>>>>>>>> diff --git a/drivers/gpu/drm/drm_colorop.c
>>>>>>>> b/drivers/gpu/drm/drm_colorop.c
>>>>>>>> index f421c623b3f0..49422c625f4d 100644
>>>>>>>> --- a/drivers/gpu/drm/drm_colorop.c
>>>>>>>> +++ b/drivers/gpu/drm/drm_colorop.c
>>>>>>>> @@ -68,6 +68,7 @@ static const struct drm_prop_enum_list
>>>>>>>> drm_colorop_type_enum_list[] = {
>>>>>>>> { DRM_COLOROP_CTM_3X4, "3x4 Matrix"},
>>>>>>>> { DRM_COLOROP_MULTIPLIER, "Multiplier"},
>>>>>>>> { DRM_COLOROP_3D_LUT, "3D LUT"},
>>>>>>>> + { DRM_COLOROP_CSC_FF, "CSC Fixed-Function"},
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> the fundamental idea seems fine to me, but I have a lot to say about the
>>>>>>> nomenclature.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What would you think of a more readable name DRM_COLOROP_FIXED_MATRIX
>>>>>>> "Fixed Matrix"?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Alternatively DRM_COLOROP_ENUM_MATRIX "Enumerated Matrix".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I was intentionally staying away from the word matrix because there was
>>>>>> no programmable matrix but it would make sense to name it something like
>>>>>> DRM_COLOROP_FIXED_MATRIX (or *_PRESET_MATRIX for that matter).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> };
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> static const char * const colorop_curve_1d_type_names[] = {
>>>>>>>> @@ -90,6 +91,13 @@ static const struct drm_prop_enum_list
>>>>>>>> drm_colorop_lut3d_interpolation_list[] =
>>>>>>>> { DRM_COLOROP_LUT3D_INTERPOLATION_TETRAHEDRAL, "Tetrahedral" },
>>>>>>>> };
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> +static const char * const colorop_csc_ff_type_names[] = {
>>>>>>>> + [DRM_COLOROP_CSC_FF_YUV601_RGB601] = "YUV601 to RGB601",
>>>>>>>> + [DRM_COLOROP_CSC_FF_YUV709_RGB709] = "YUV709 to RGB709",
>>>>>>>> + [DRM_COLOROP_CSC_FF_YUV2020_RGB2020] = "YUV2020 to RGB2020",
>>>>>>>> + [DRM_COLOROP_CSC_FF_RGB709_RGB2020] = "RGB709 to RGB2020",
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'd suggest names:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "YCbCr 601 to RGB"
>>>>>>> "YCbCr 709 to RGB"
>>>>>>> "YCbCr 2020 NC to RGB"
>>>>>>> "RGB709 to RGB2020"
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> or something in that direction.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The relevant ITU-R BT specifications use YCbCr nomenclature IIRC. Wrt.
>>>>>>> YCbCr-to-RGB conversion, there is no RGB601, RGB709 or RGB2020. There
>>>>>>> is only some RGB, and which primaries it uses is not always tied to
>>>>>>> which YCbCr conversion was used.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What I understand from this is that the BT.709(et al.) only defines the
>>>>>> matrix that is used for YCbCr->RGB, "what" RGB it is defined by the
>>>>>> primaries (which comes with metadata?).
>>>>>
>>>>> Unfortunately, BT.601, BT.709 and BT.2020 define two separate things each:
>>>>> - the YCbCr<->RGB conversion, and
>>>>> - the colorspace primaries (and white point, but that is the same for
>>>>> them all).
>>>>>
>>
>> Would it make sense to treat these as two separate things in terms
>> of colorops?
>
> Hi Harry,
>
> no, if your hardware not care. There are no semantics for the numbers
> in the UAPI, it's just whatever numbers, and mathematical operations on
> them.
>
> I suspect that your hardware does care, though, and actually has
> separate hardware elements for the YCbCr conversion and the colorspace
> conversion matrix. After all, one has to be able to put a LUT or a
> curve between the two to make sense.
>
> IOW, two different colorops, yes. But different colorop types? Maybe
> that depends on whether they would have the same colorop properties or
> not.
>
If I understand you correctly you're saying we can have a single
colorop type to represent either type. A client of the API needs
to understand what it's doing with the colorop and can use it
as either a YCbCr conversion matrix in the case of YCbCr-to-RGB
conversion, or an NPM for conversion of linear, normalized data
from one set of primaries to another.
Is that understanding correct?
>> I have done some work on a CSC colorop and intend to send out the
>> patches in the next couple of days.
>>
>> https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/hwentland/linux/-/commits/csc-colorop
>>
>> It follows the drm_plane's COLOR_RANGE and COLOR_ENCODING semantic
>> and is only intended for YCbCr-to-RGB conversion, like the original
>> properties on the plane.
>>
>> For the colorspace conversion within RGB (e.g., BT709 to BT2020)
>> it might make sense then to have its own colorop if HW works on
>> pre-defined transformations, or use the CTM 3x3 or 3x4 matrix ops
>> if HW provides a flexible matrix.
>>
>> We might need to think about naming, since colorspace conversion (CSC)
>> right now seems to refer to both YCbCr conversion and primaries
>> conversion.
>
> Indeed.
>
> YCbCr conversion is usually a matrix operation. H.273 calls it
> MatrixCoefficients, but it also lists cases where you need the EOTF in
> the mix. I could go with "YCbCr coefficients". The pure matrix forms
> are used on electrical pixel values.
>
> The color space conversion matrices that are based on (Normalized)
> Primary Matrices (NPM) must be used on optical pixel values. NPM is the
> matrix that converts optical RGB values to CIE 1931 XYZ. For an
> RGB-to-RGB conversion you need one NPM and another inverse NPM chained.
>
This could be expressed in a single matrix, right?
I intend to send out my patches as an RFC either way, but I think I
could just as well work with the CSC_FF colorop. I'll have a look at
basing my work on this.
Harry
> I guess using CSC for the latter is not obvious enough because it has
> been used for the former (color model conversion) as well?
>
> How about "color-primary conversion"?
>
> I stole it from
> https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1002/9780470994375.app8
>
>
> Thanks,
> pq
>
>>>>> BT.601 actually has two different sets of primaries. Bt.2020 defines
>>>>> two different YCbCr conversions. BT.709 uses the same primaries as
>>>>> sRGB, but is different from sRGB on all other aspects.
>>>>>
>>>>> Therefore, when you refer to any one of these, you also need to be
>>>>> clear whether you are referring to the YCbCr conversion or to the
>>>>> primaries.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> In that case, if the HW block says that it does YCbCr to RGB conversion
>>>> using rec BT.709, the resultant RGB follows the primaries as described
>>>> by BT.709 or mathematically it does not really matter?
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> the resultant RGB may or may not follow BT.709 primaries, and knowing
>>> the primaries is important for further processing in general.
>>>
>>> YCbCr<->RGB conversion does not change the primaries. What went in,
>>> will come out.
>>>
>>>>>> I will read up on why our HW names these bits as such.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sure, but keep in mind that your hardware naming is irrelevant for the
>>>>> UAPI design.
>>>>
>>>> Understood, I just want to make sure that the HW does exactly what we
>>>> will advertise through the UAPI.
>>>
>>> Precisely.
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> pq
>>>
>>>>>>> For YCbCr 2020 I feel it's nice to remember, that there are two
>>>>>>> different conversions in the specification: the simple matrix one
>>>>>>> called "non-constant luminance", and the complex one called "constant
>>>>>>> luminance". Hence "NC".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's also good to recall that YCbCr-RGB conversions are done in an
>>>>>>> electrical space, while RGB709-to-RGB2020 conversion must be done in the
>>>>>>> optical space. It is up to the userspace to arrange the neighbouring
>>>>>>> colorops to use the fixed matrix right.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ack on the above.
>>
>
