Thanks to all of you for the help. I remembered the Sisupala quote vaguely
(from 55 years ago) — at least my memory is better than ChatGPT. At the end of
his life, Hank Heifetz was translating the Sisupala, and he had final versions
of virtually all of it. Unfortunately, he died before finishing the notes and
totally polishing his translations. It strikes me that it would be useful if
his work could be published or made available on the internet — I could ask his
children and see if they would agree to posting it. Here is his very nice
translation of 11.39:
“ When I was drunk, I must have chattered away
before that man, I must have spoken
words meant to entice him just as if I were
a grown and bolder woman,”
said a young girl, pondering with her friends
what had happened to her at night
as the day had dawned and with her drunkenness
gone, she felt a sense of shame.
> On Oct 1, 2025, at 1:46 PM, Raffaele Torella <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> An article of mine, “Devī uvāca, or the theology of the perfect tense”, might
> be of some interest to you.
> https://www.academia.edu/4610814/Dev%C4%AB_uv%C4%81ca_or_the_theology_of_the_perfect_tense
>
> Cari saluti,
> Raffaele Torella
>
>> Il giorno 1 ott 2025, alle ore 19:37, JAMES RYAN via INDOLOGY
>> <[email protected]> ha scritto:
>>
>> George,
>>
>> You have an example of the first person perfect usage in your Rapid Sanskrit
>> Method, p. 174.
>> The quotation is from Śiśupālavadha 11.39. Spoken by a woman who had been
>> drunk:
>>
>> bahu jagada purastāt tasya mattā kila aham
>> cakara ca kila cāṭu prauḍhayoṣidvad asya
>> viditam iti sakhibhyo rātrivṛttaṃ vicintya
>> vyapagatamadayā ahni vrīḍitam mugdhavadhvā
>>
>> I used it to teach Sanskrit for 35 years and remember it well. (I separated
>> words for easier scanning.)
>>
>> Jim Ryan
>> Asian and Comparative Studies (Emeritus)
>> California Institute of Integral Studies
>>
>>
>>> On 10/01/2025 6:55 AM PDT George L Hart via INDOLOGY
>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> In classical Sanskrit as I remember it, the perfect tense is supposed to be
>>> used for acts one has not witnessed. Obviously, this makes the use of the
>>> first person perfect problematic. There is a passage — in Śiśupālavadha? —
>>> in which the poet has a character describe lovemaking while he had drunk
>>> too much, using the first person perfect to describe acts he is not sure he
>>> did. Does anyone know where this episode appears? I asked ChatGPT and it
>>> made up a passage it said was from the 8th canto of the Kumārasaṃbhava.
>>> When I pointed out to it that the passage does not exist, ChatGPT
>>> apologized and gave me something from the Ṛgveda.
>>>
>>> Here’s what ChatGPT said. I’m not sure “hallucinating” is strong enough.
>>>
>>> The passage you’re recalling is likely from Kālidāsa’s Kumārasambhava (The
>>> Birth of Kumāra), specifically in Canto 8. In this section, the god Śiva
>>> recounts his experience and interactions with Pārvatī. Śiva, reflecting on
>>> his actions, uses the first-person perfect tense in the original Sanskrit.
>>>
>>>
>>> For instance, in verse 8.33, Śiva says:
>>>
>>>
>>> mattvā madīyāśayapūrvakāṇi
>>> (I, being intoxicated, performed actions…)
>>>
>>> This verse and others capture the reflective tone where Śiva recalls his
>>> past actions, often influenced by a state of intoxication or strong emotion.
>>>
>>>
>>> This particular use of the first-person perfect is famous for illustrating
>>> Śiva’s introspection and human-like vulnerabilities. Would you like to
>>> explore this verse in more detail?
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>>> [email protected]
>>> https://list.indology.info/mailman/listinfo/indology
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> INDOLOGY mailing list
>> [email protected]
>> https://www.google.com/url?q=https://list.indology.info/mailman/listinfo/indology&source=gmail-imap&ust=1759945100000000&usg=AOvVaw3pXB1yRge_Cf4MPdx9qQVr
>
> Prof. Raffaele Torella
> Emeritus Professor of Sanskrit
> Sapienza University of Rome
> wwwuniroma1.academia.edu/raffaeletorella
>
>
> Fai crescere le giovani ricercatrici e i giovani ricercatori
> con il 5 per mille alla Sapienza
> Scrivi il codice fiscale dell'Università 80209930587
> Cinque per mille <https://www.uniroma1.it/it/node/23149>
_______________________________________________
INDOLOGY mailing list
[email protected]
https://list.indology.info/mailman/listinfo/indology
