----- Original Message ----- From: BNV Raman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2003 2:40 PM Subject: RE: [LIG] [draft] open letter to indian finance minister - a different point of view
> Hello LIG, > > I do not agree with what levying excise duty is supposed to achieve. I have > no objection to levying excise duty on commercial software, but not for the > purposes that the thread originator proposes. As all software companies > enjoy the **limited** benefits provided by the government in the form of > defense, infrastructure, etc, they should also pay the same taxes and duties > that manufacturing industries and services pay, viz, excise duties, sales > taxes and income taxes, but not to promote FLOSS! > > >1) Commercial software (C.S) is a big cash drain for both the Indian > >government and Indian corporates. > > So are many other things. Like private jets. Like 8 figure salaries for > CEOS. Like designer buildings and designer board rooms, etc. The best people > to decide what Indian Corporates should spend money on, are themselves and > their share holders, not us. > > > > >2) Almost all commercial software are non-free. This means, they > >do not give > >the end users the freedom i) to use the software for any purpose > >ii) to study > >the source code of the software iii) to make changes and > >improvements to the > >source code iv) to legally share copies of the software with their > >neighbours > >and colleagues. v) to pass on such freedom to those who further > >receive the > >software. > > Whoever writes software, has the full freedom to sell it to whoever he/she > wishes, imposing any conditions he/she chooses. The customer, if he does not > like it, need not buy it. The same goes for manufactured products also. If > you don't like it, don't buy it. Nobody is **forcing** you to buy things. > Again, the lack of choice is not the problem of CS or of the government. The > government has a duty to provide a competitive, non-partisan environment, > not to promote competition itself. This is a very important distinction. > > >3) these freedoms are important for a developing, poor, country > >like India, > >where every citizen, organization, and state, dreams of harnessing the > >opportunities offered by IT. > > absolutely right. Thats why FLOSS is so important. But do not promote FLOSS > by hitting at personal freedoms. If I write Software (something i would like > to do :-))), then **I** should decide if I want to sell it, make FLOSS of > it, or impose any other conditions. Neither any nor the government should > stop or hamper me in this. > > >4) these freedoms also significantly curtail strong anti-competitive > >behaviour in the software industry. > > The only way to curtail so called strong snti-competitive behaviour is to > make and provide the market with a better product. If the market refuses to > change over to FLOSS compared to Commercial software, there must be some > underlying reasons, including learning curves and changeover problems that > have not been addressed by FLOSS. So lets spend our energies in reducing > difficulties in changing over to FLOSS and reducing learning curves, and not > in petitioning governments to promote FLOSS! We do not want governments to > pass any sort of laws / regulations / guidelines / etc. > > >5) countries like China are moving away from non-free software to > >freedom-based software. India has no such significant, clearly-defined > >initiative in place for adopting freedom based software. > > Make the FLOSS products better, then we do not need initiatives to promote > anything. What any initiative does is to say, "We like FLOSS and we want you > to adopt it, and not because you like it, but because we like it.". Piracy > is rampant in China. So any figures/statistics anybody has on China will be > inaccurate, to say the least. For all we know, pirated commercial software > could be used much more. > > >6) in the lack of such a clear initiative, commercial software > >vendors raise > >the stakes for both their competitors and for freedom based software. this > >further kills innovation in the industry. > > I disagree with this completely. I'm a die hard advocate of FLOSS, but I do > not believe that commercial software kills innovation. Show me one instance. > Again, let me make it clear, commercial software does not preclude FLOSS > from existing and making great software. > > >7) a large and significant percentage of commercial software is > >usually sold > >as bundled, OEM software. end-users find they are *forced* to use such > >software, since their requests to buy machines with such software > >uninstalled > >is usually turned down. > > So please petition Dell / HP / IBM / etc etc etc and get them to sell > computers with OS uninstalled, or at least to provide us with a choice. What > has the government got to do with this? If Dell and IBM are so hot with > their linux support with so many gazillion $ of support each year, how come > they don't provide basic choices for their end customers? > > >8) indian customers usually find their *only* option is to buy the > >computer > >with the bundled software, then carefully disagree the end user license > >agreement (eula) of the bundled software preferably in front of witnesses, > >then contact the OEM software vendor independently and press for a refund. > >this is clearly anti-competitive. and the computer is perceived in cost as > >(hardware+OEM software as One). > > Agreed, but this is not the government's problem, or something that should > be rectified by law / regulation / imposing Excise Duty. This should be > taken care through the free market mechanism. If enough people demand choice > and FLOSS, and if it makes business sense, computer manufacturers will > supply the necessary configurations. Its our job, as promoters of FLOSS, to > remove all problems of FLOSS, so that more and more people demand FLOSS! Do > you want Free/Libre Open Design Hardware (FLODH) also ? :-)) > > >9) Commercial software companies are usually quite rich. Not taxing them > >allows them to hoard their wealth even more and give them more > >implicit power > >to quash their competition in commercial software and in freedom-based > >software. > > So Money Power helps kill others? So what else is new? The answer is not by > increasing taxes. Does anybody remember the time when there was 95% Income > taxes? (in Indira Gandhi's time) Nobody would pay tax, and black marketing, > smuggling, and sales without invoices would be the result. Don't punish the > rich for being rich, concentrate on building skills in the poor to help them > develop and grow. (We are getting into capitalism Vs. Socialism and > Communism here, so lets not get into that. We all know communism is a big > failure) > > >10) by taxing them, the indian government will immediately have > >more powers > >to i) accelerate the adoption of freedom based software. > >ii) fund the development of much-needed indigenous solutions in IT > >for india > >using freedom-based software (indian language technologies, education > >projects, free and freedom-based education software, more secure and > >transparant software for indian defense industries, lower IT > >infrastructure > >costs for indian government and businesses, etc.) > > **Same as before** government is next to useless as a champion of anything, > their function is to protect our borders and to provide a free and fair > environment inside. > > >11) by taxing commercial software and funding several projects in india on > >freedom-based software, the indian government also creates a > >quantum leap in > >the number of jobs and opportunities available to the indian developer > >community and IT industry, thus creating and sharing more wealth. > > Projects do not create wealth. An Increase in Jobs and opportunities does > **not** create wealth. Value does. Understanding your customer's needs and > servicing those needs creates value. You can service that need either > through FLOSS or through commercial software. Further, if you want money, > you can raise money by selling FLOSS. You need not give it away free (as in, > no money). So why take money from commercial software to further the cause > of FLOSS? > > >12) the adoption of free and freedom-based software allows indian > >corporates > >to save considerable sums of money towards commercial non-free software, > >where the Return on Investment is loudly questioned. this money > >can then be > >used for further job-creating opportunities such as expansion of > >new units of > >industrial manufacturing, factories, etc. shareholders of indian companies > >will also benefit from stronger dividends due to stronger profit > >margins due > >to the adoption of free and freedom-based software. > > Lets examine your suggestions here. We shall tax commercial software, so > that we can promote FLOSS, and by using FLOSS, corporates can save money. So > who is going to buy commercial software and pay those excise duties that you > need? The average home user? I think not. Simultaneously, you want to make > commercial software pay for developing FLOSS and then kill commercial > software. Should I pay a tax for somebody to kill me? At least commercial > software does not pretend to be an angel that solves everybody's problems. > FLOSS cannot solve the problems of the world. and neither can IT, for that > matter. > > >13) the already financially-starved education sector in India will gain, > >since the large allocation of funds for software in education can be used > >more productively, even for opening more schools instead. > > So who is stopping them now? Why is the so called financially starved > education sector not going for FLOSS? Some enlightened ones are, and some > are not. Thats their choice. Leave it to them to manage their finances. > Central planning of education does not work. Create better and better > schools, instead. > > >14) finally, as a statement of leadership and values, india must adopt > >freedom-based software that is being proposed to the UNICEF to be > >declared as > >a world-culture heritage. > > What is this going to achieve? So, by declaring something as a blah blah > blah, it is going to be something worth doing or aspiring to be? Pure > propaganda is what this is. If your product really espouses freedom and > liberty and etc etc, you don't need to get the UN or any such organisation > to declare it as such. Have enough faith in fellow human beings to > celebrate, value and adopt freedom and liberty. > > >We hope the Indian government sincerely considers these > >suggestions. For more > >information on what is freedom-based software, please check out > www.gnu.org. > > We sincerely hope not. Let not the Indian Government, or any other, come > anywhere near this. FLOSS is too valuable. > > >Bizarre as it sounds, when it comes to software: > >Give us Freedom, or Give Us Taxes. > > Bizarre it definitely sounds, and is. Don't give us anything. If we want > freedom, we shall fight for it and we shall take it. Nobody needs to give us > anything. > > My Conclusion: > Commercial software should indeed pay sales taxes and income taxes and > excise duties, simply as a user of all the services and facilities that the > government **provides**. But not to promote FLOSS. Promote FLOSS because you > value freedom and liberty. Its not a situation of commercial software or > FLOSS. Both can coexist and produce great software. > > Yours sincerely, > Flames are Welcome! > > BNV Raman. > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Etnus, makers of TotalView, The debugger > for complex code. Debugging C/C++ programs can leave you feeling lost and > disoriented. TotalView can help you find your way. Available on major UNIX > and Linux platforms. Try it free. www.etnus.com > _______________________________________________ > Linux-india-general mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/linux-india-general > ================================================ To unsubscribe, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe in subject header. Check archives at http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd%40wpaa.org
