[cc'ed to a more approriate IETF wg] On Sep 10, 2013, at 11:55 AM, Jim Gettys <j...@freedesktop.org> wrote:
> Ted T'so referred to a conversation we had last week. Let me give the > background. > > Dave Taht has been doing an advanced version of OpenWrt for our bufferbloat > work (called CeroWrt http://www.bufferbloat.net/projects/cerowrt/wiki/Wiki). > Of course, we both want things other than just bufferbloat, as you can see by > looking at that page (and you want to run in place of what you run today, > given how broken and dated home router firmware from manufacturers generally > is). Everything possible gets pushed upstream into OpenWrt as quickly as > possible; but CeroWrt goes beyond where OpenWrt is in quite a few ways. > > I was frustrated by Homenet's early belief's (on no data) that lots of things > weren't feasible due to code/data footprint; both Dave and I knew better from > previous work on embedded hardware. As example, Dave put a current version > of bind 9 into the build (thereby proving that having a full function name > service in your home router was completely feasible; that has aided > discussions in the working group) since. > > We uncovered two practical problems, both of which need to be solved to > enable full DNSSEC deployment into the home: > > 1) DNSSEC needs to have the time within one hour. But these devices do not > have TOY clocks (and arguably, never will, nor even probably should ever have > them). > > So how do you get the time after you power on the device? The usual answer > is "use ntp". Except you can't do a DNS resolve when your time is incorrect. > You have a chicken and egg problem to resolve/hack around :-(. > > Securely bootstrapping time in the Internet is something I believe needs > doing.... and being able to do so over wireless links, not just relying on > wired links. > > 2) when you install a new home router, you may want to generate certificates > for that home domain (particularly so it can be your primary name server, > which you'd really like to be under your control anyway, rather than > delegating to someone else who could either intentionally on unintentionally > subvert your domain). > > Right now, on that class hardware, there is a dearth of entropy available, > causing such certificate generation to be painful/impossible without human > intervention, which we know home users don't do. These SOC's do not have > hardware RNG's, and we can't trust them either blindly. Ted's working on that > situation in Linux; it is probably a case of "the enemy of the good is the > perfect", but certainly I'm now much more paranoid than I once was. > > See: https://plus.google.com/117091380454742934025/posts/XeApV5DKwAj > > Jim > My colleagues and I worked on OpenWrt routers to get Unbound to work there, what you need to do is to start DNS up in non-validating mode wait for NTP to fix time, then check if the link allows DNSSEC answers through, at which point you can enable DNSSEC validation. see: https://www.dnssec-deployment.org/index.php/2012/03/a-validating-recursive-resolver-on-a-70-home-router/ We also discovered that some cheap devices like this will do NTP at startup and never again that combined with long up-time and bad clocks caused the Validators to start rejecting signatures due to the time on the signatures. The big issue is that validator implementors assume that it runs on good hardware with good links, thus it is safe to enable DNSSEC out of the gate. We need either have resolvers come up in recursive mode and tool like dnsec-trigger or our scripts change the behavior to validator after that has been deemed safe, or build the checking into the validators. The same can be said of devices that have been installed from media or have been turned off for a long time (say month or more), in these cases starting up in validating mode only only turns the device into a brick. Olafur
