Laurence, The maintenance really isn’t a large issue, of course I have been a System Programmer/developer for 40 yrs. But still I don’t feel z/PDT is all that difficult.
Scott On Sat, Oct 12, 2019 at 12:35 AM Laurence Chiu <lch...@gmail.com> wrote: > That doesn't sound promising. My thought was to use the environment > development (Cobol and some Assembler), target CICS with VSAM and DB2. > This is a RACF shop with third party SCM. > > Then the developers might get better response time for their development > and test batch jobs. I certainly would not expect developers to manage the > environment that would be the role of the Sysprog so if we could clone an > LPAR on the mainframe to bring down, then there shouldn't be too much work > to do hopefully. > > We are not a Sysplex shop so that would not be an issue for the moment. > > Standing up Linux boxes would not be an issue since the place uses AWS > extensively so I could just ask the Digital guys to spin up some Linux > image for us and we do the rest :-) > > I might broach the topic with the developers just to gauge interest. > > > > On Sat, Oct 12, 2019 at 7:00 AM Frank Swarbrick < > frank.swarbr...@outlook.com> > wrote: > > > You just expressed all of my concerns. I personally would be happy to do > > a lot of "systemish" things in this environment, but I can't imagine it > > makes sense for most developers. > > > > ________________________________ > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> on behalf > > of Jousma, David <000001a0403c5dc1-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> > > Sent: Friday, October 11, 2019 11:56 AM > > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU <IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> > > Subject: Re: IBM Z Development and Test Environment (zD&T) > > > > So, we took a peek at licensing zD&T. We did a trial on it, and stood a > > couple instances up. As others have mentioned, it is the ADCD image, > and > > has all products. The "problem" for us, is that we don’t have an all > blue > > software stack. So to do anything meaningful, that might resemble what > > you are already running you'll have to roll-your-own image. IBM does > > provide utilities to clone a MF based image, and build a zD&T image. > We > > happen to be all parallel sysplex. To keep things simple, I'd have to > > build a stand-alone environment to clone from, or go to the effort of > > building a VM environment on ZD&T, and then stand up an emulated CF, and > > LPAR. Then what about security? WE happen to be a CA-TSS shop, but > even > > if you are a RACF shop you cannot just load your RACF database to the > ZD&T > > image, otherwise nothing IBM provided will run since none of the tasks, > etc > > would be the same names. > > > > So, then you are faced with basically reproducing your entire system > > environment in this space. While IBM allows you to use all of their > > products, we've found out that the other vendors aren’t quite so > generous. > > The other big problem for us, is that we just don’t have the staffing at > > this time to provide all the care and feeding building and maintaining it > > will require. The other problem that we see is that an image that a > > developer spins up wont have the knowledge let alone sysprog access to > > start/stop regions, etc, etc, etc. IBM's answer was just give them the > > access, if they screw it up, just wipe it out, and reclone the image. > The > > problem is you are asking developers to do things in this environment > that > > they would have not access to do on the "real systems" and would generate > > endless calls to my team for support. > > > > About the only use case we can find is for DB2 development work, testing > > queries, table design, etc. > > > > > > > > > _____________________________________________________________________________________________________ > > Dave Jousma > > AVP | Manager, Systems Engineering > > > > Fifth Third Bank | 1830 East Paris Ave, SE | MD RSCB2H | Grand > > Rapids, MI 49546 > > 616.653.8429 | fax: 616.653.2717 > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> On Behalf > > Of Matt Hogstrom > > Sent: Friday, October 11, 2019 1:34 PM > > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > > Subject: Re: IBM Z Development and Test Environment (zD&T) > > > > **CAUTION EXTERNAL EMAIL** > > > > **DO NOT open attachments or click on links from unknown senders or > > unexpected emails** > > > > The customer has to provide the host Linux environment. The images will > > vary depending on where you sourced your images. There is no magic on > > creating the customized environments. Someone needs to define the > > resources (IMS, tables, load modules,...). This could be the system > > programmer or the developer or tester. > > > > Think of it more as a pipeline where the each person does their part DBA > > theirs, etc.). > > > > Once you have the flavor of what you want you can copy the volumes for > > each user’s instance. Ideally you’ll have automation to recreate them. > > There are a set of tools as part of ZD&T that can assist > > > > I believe there is docker support as an alternative to running heavier > > weight VMs. Docket is interesting as it allows you to amortize the base > > image cost across multiple instances > > > > Matt Hogstrom > > +1 (919) 656-0564 > > > > > On Oct 11, 2019, at 08:42, scott Ford <idfli...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > Frank: > > > > > > We are in Partnerworld , this one is new to me . I *ASSUME ( I know ) > > > that the customer has to have the Linux hardware for the Deploys , etc. > > > Can someone from IBM confirm this ? My assumption is you could run on > > > another host environment ... > > > > > > Scott > > > > > >> On Thu, Oct 10, 2019 at 7:42 PM Frank Swarbrick > > >> <frank.swarbr...@outlook.com> > > >> wrote: > > >> > > >> Starting a new thread...just because. > > >> So does anyone have an experience actually using this? > > >> Do you have Enterprise Edition? > > >> Does each developer have a zD&T "instance"? > > >> Do you build an "image" from an existing mainframe z/OS environment > > >> and then have the developers deploy that image to their personal > > instance? > > >> What about testers? On > > >> https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/en/SSTQBD_12.0.0/com.ibm. > > >> zsys.rdt.tools.user.guide.doc/topics/provisioning.html > > >> is states "This process can be done by any application programmer or > > >> tester on-demand whenever they need a new environment." That seems > > >> almost too good to be true! > > >> What if a developer needs to create new resources for their > > >> environment, i.e. files, DB2 tables, IMS databases and PSBs, MQ > > >> queues et al? Do those get created by system programmers on the > > >> source image and then deployed by the developer to their personal > > instance, or what? > > >> How much work is it to get data moved from the mainframe to a > > >> development instance? > > >> It all sounds great in theory, but I'd love to hear about some real > > >> world usage. > > >> > > >> Frank > > >> > > >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >> - For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > > >> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO > > >> IBM-MAIN > > >> > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > > *IDMWORKS * > > > > > > Scott Ford > > > > > > z/OS Dev. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > “By elevating a friend or Collegue you elevate yourself, by demeaning > > > a friend or collegue you demean yourself” > > > > > > > > > > > > www.idmworks.com<http://www.idmworks.com> > > > > > > scott.f...@idmworks.com > > > > > > Blog: www.idmworks.com/blog<http://www.idmworks.com/blog> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *The information contained in this email message and any attachment > > > may be privileged, confidential, proprietary or otherwise protected > > > from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended > > > recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, > > > distribution, copying or use of this message and any attachment is > > > strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, > > > please notify us immediately by replying to the message and > > > permanently delete it from your computer and destroy any printout > > > thereof.* > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send > > > email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send > email > > to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN **CAUTION > > EXTERNAL EMAIL** > > > > **DO NOT open attachments or click on links from unknown senders or > > unexpected emails** > > > > This e-mail transmission contains information that is confidential and > may > > be privileged. It is intended only for the addressee(s) named above. If > > you receive this e-mail in error, please do not read, copy or disseminate > > it in any manner. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, > > copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information is > > prohibited. Please reply to the message immediately by informing the > sender > > that the message was misdirected. After replying, please erase it from > your > > computer system. Your assistance in correcting this error is appreciated. > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > -- Scott Ford IDMWORKS z/OS Development ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
