1620? 1710? I don't recall a 1610 -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי נֵ֣צַח יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל לֹ֥א יְשַׁקֵּ֖ר
________________________________________ From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> on behalf of Doug Fuerst <d...@bkassociates.net> Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2025 9:02 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU <IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Artificial stupidity in action External Message: Use Caution They look more like 1610's actually, but the tapes int he background are definitely 729 drives. Doug Fuerst ------ Original Message ------ From "Rupert Reynolds" <rreyno...@cix.co.uk> To IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Date 8/29/2025 12:21:02 PM Subject Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Artificial stupidity in action >My memory says 7094, although it was before my time and I can't suggest a >source. > >That said, >https://youtu.be/41U78QP8nBk?si=57nEornU6G5VjX7R says 7094 in 1961 > >You've reminded me of The Happy Hacker, which was later and had no words I >think. Bell Labs, maybe? > >Roops >--- >"Mundus sine Caesaribus" > >On Fri, 29 Aug 2025, 14:52 Seymour J Metz, <sme...@gmu.edu> wrote: > >> There are conflicting claims as to the first computer to play Daisy Bell. >> Some sources claim 704, with a dater later than the first 7090. Other >> sources claim 7094, with a date earlier than the official first customer >> ship. Is it possible that BTL had a pre-announcement 7094? Does anyody have >> a definitive reference that wiki could cite? >> >> >> -- >> Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz >>http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 >> עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי >> נֵ֣צַח יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל לֹ֥א יְשַׁקֵּ֖ר >> >> >> >> >> ________________________________________ >> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> on behalf >> of Seymour J Metz <sme...@gmu.edu> >> Sent: Friday, August 29, 2025 7:39 AM >> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU <IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> >> Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Artificial stupidity in action >> >> >> External Message: Use Caution >> >> >> It is in some regards unfortunate that the term AI is used for current >> software, as it properly refers to a goal not yet achieved and leads to >> unrealistic expectations. I prefer terms with fewer connotations, e.g., big >> data. >> >> It is true that an LLM is simply synthesizing from the data that it was >> trained on, but the issue is not whether it is truly creative, but rather >> whether it is useful. In many cases it is, although human oversight is >> essential. >> >> In a typical LLM application, plagiarism is not a problem unless it >> involves IP property violation. >> >> -- >> Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz >>http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 >> עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי >> נֵ֣צַח יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל לֹ֥א יְשַׁקֵּ֖ר >> >> >> >> >> ________________________________________ >> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> on behalf >> of Rupert Reynolds <rreyno...@cix.co.uk> >> Sent: Friday, August 29, 2025 2:20 AM >> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU <IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> >> Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Artificial stupidity in action >> >> >> External Message: Use Caution >> >> >> While I have tried various LLMs for code (such as C code to create a TCP >> server socket, and to accept a connection) I'd argue it is not generating >> to any significant degree--searching hard enough, I found the original code >> I'm pretty sure the LLM plagiarised. >> >> LLMs do not understand (by my definition of the word). And the old trick of >> asking "how many Ws are there in Mississippi" would not be so no popular if >> they did understand. >> >> Roops >> --- >> "Mundus sine Caesaribus" >> >> On Fri, 29 Aug 2025, 02:35 Seymour J Metz, <sme...@gmu.edu> wrote: >> >> > I believe that current technology is good enough to generate decent HLASM >> > with adequate training. >> > >> > As to the future, something that I learned a long time ago is that it is >> a >> > lot easier to predict that a technology is possible than it is to predict >> > when. Some things arrived a lot sooner than anybody expected, while >> others >> > that were "5 years away" still aren't here after half a century. >> > >> > As for true AI, I'm more concerned about ethical issues than I am about >> > competition. At what point does a piece of software become a person? >> > >> > -- >> > Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz >> > http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 >> > עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי >> > נֵ֣צַח יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל לֹ֥א יְשַׁקֵּ֖ר >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > ________________________________________ >> > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> on behalf >> > of Steve Thompson <ste...@wkyr.net> >> > Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2025 9:07 PM >> > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU <IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> >> > Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Artificial stupidity in action >> > >> > >> > External Message: Use Caution >> > >> > >> > I'm not so sure it has the smarts today to generate assembly >> > language statements that are correct and logical until we go >> > through another generation or two (Versions in product speak). >> > >> > I've been looking at it in reading IRS alc and trying to turn >> > that in to Java. I was told the java was nearly undecipherable by >> > the people who were well versed in java. And even then, they were >> > not able to make some changes to it that did what they wanted. >> > >> > Meanwhile, I'm afraid of AI becoming too "good". I keep >> > remembering the books I read in HS from Isaac Asimov and >> > postitronic brains and having to implement the rules of robotics. >> > >> > Basically, I see a bad moon rising.... >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Regards, >> > Steve Thompson >> > >> > MAGA: Make Assembly Language Great Again >> > >> > >> > >> > On 8/28/2025 8:44 PM, Seymour J Metz wrote: >> > > Just because it's overhyped doesn't mean that it's not useful. And just >> > because it doesn't have understanding today doesn't mean that it never >> > will. Making a pun on the name doesn't mean that I consider it useless or >> > unimportant. >> > > >> > > The issues generating HLASM code are real, but that stems from >> > inadequate data during training rather than design defects. >> > > >> > > -- >> > > Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz >> > > http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 >> > > עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי >> > > נֵ֣צַח יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל לֹ֥א יְשַׁקֵּ֖ר >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > ________________________________________ >> > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> on >> > behalf of nmaxik...@yahoo.com < >> > 000008873aa64554-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> >> > > Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2025 8:09 PM >> > > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU <IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> >> > > Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Artificial stupidity in action >> > > >> > > >> > > External Message: Use Caution >> > > >> > > >> > > The same people who said the mainframe is dead in 1993, are likely the >> > same ones now downplaying AI. NVIDIA is the highest market cap company >> that >> > ever existed. What do they make? Graphics Processing Units for AI data >> > centers. Who is buying them? The largest tech companies in the world. AI >> is >> > here and it’s going to impact everything. >> > > >> > > >> > > Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone >> > > >> > > >> > > On Sunday, August 17, 2025, 8:59 AM, Seymour J Metz <sme...@gmu.edu> >> > wrote: >> > > >> > > How good is the training? Can it generate a working HLASM program? >> > Locate specific editions of PoOps? >> > > >> > > i tried CoPilot only because it was part of my mandatory training this >> > year. i was curious whether it would mess up as badly as ChaatGPT (It's a >> > typo. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.) >> > > >> > > -- >> > > Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz >> > > http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 >> > > עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי >> > > נֵ֣צַח יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל לֹ֥א יְשַׁקֵּ֖ר >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > ________________________________________ >> > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> on >> > behalf of Pommier, Rex <00000737643a508d-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> >> > > Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2025 10:49 PM >> > > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU <IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> >> > > Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Artificial stupidity in action >> > > >> > > >> > > External Message: Use Caution >> > > >> > > >> > > How about the best of both worlds - google AI? I went searching for a >> > very specific "can I do this" type question regarding surcharges on >> retail >> > purchases with credit cards and a specific CC clearinghouse. Google AI >> > came back with a "yes you can do that" and about 3 items down the hit >> list, >> > the specific clearing house' web site pops up with "no you can't do >> that". >> > > >> > > Rex >> > > >> > > -----Original Message----- >> > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> On >> > Behalf Of Matt Hogstrom >> > > Sent: Friday, August 15, 2025 4:38 PM >> > > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU >> > > Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Artificial stupidity in action >> > > >> > > Let’s be honest. It’s not sentient. Processed a lot of information >> and >> > indexes it to define relationships and is a better search than google. >> > > Apart from that I think people are expecting perfection but it is >> > imperfect but pretty dang impressive >> > > >> > > On Fri, Aug 15, 2025 at 17:34 Seymour J Metz <sme...@gmu.edu> wrote: >> > > >> > >> Well, the judge thought that submitting briefs with bogus citations >> > >> was pretty cheesy. >> > >> >> > >> -- >> > >> Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz >> > >> >>https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://mason.gmu.edu/*smetz3__;fg!!KjMRP1I >> > >> xj6eLE0Fj!o_VDCnJjynb2bLfg3a11_uUWQ7D6fOm5XPAHuwxjVSyRa1TXm8EZK0TBPkbq >> > >> Iq9QkXgdysUR5N9aWYQ8nUZqrh1AdEOYmjoWbmAO$ >> > >> עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי >> > >> נֵ֣צַח יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל לֹ֥א יְשַׁקֵּ֖ר >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> ________________________________________ >> > >> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> on >> > >> behalf of Jeremy Nicoll <jn.ls.mfrm...@letterboxes.org> >> > >> Sent: Friday, August 15, 2025 4:58 PM >> > >> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU <IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> >> > >> Subject: Re: Artificial stupidity in action >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> External Message: Use Caution >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> On Fri, 15 Aug 2025, at 19:42, Seymour J Metz wrote: >> > >>> ... when they submitted AI-generated brie that contained >> > >> AI can make cheese? >> > >> >> > >> -- >> > >> Jeremy Nicoll - my opinions are my own. >> > >> >> > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > >> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send >> > >> email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > >> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send >> > >> email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN >> > >> >> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send >> > email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN >> > > >> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >> > > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >> > > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >> > > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >> > > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN >> > >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >> > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN >> > >> > >> > >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >> > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN >> > >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN >> >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN >> >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN >> > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- >For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
