I reckon you are making fun of me. Anyways, I've had my say :)
2017-06-02 15:03 GMT+02:00 Yoann Rodiere <yo...@hibernate.org>:
>> What's the benefit of this catch-up game?
>
> Not tainting our SPI with RestClient :)
>
> Yoann Rodière
> Hibernate NoORM Team
> yo...@hibernate.org
>
> On 2 June 2017 at 14:59, Gunnar Morling <gun...@hibernate.org> wrote:
>>
>> Sure, as I said, an implementor of that SPI will very likely deal with
>> the HTTP client. But our SPI isn't tainted by that.
>>
>> I also don't see much value in re-defining all the options from
>> RestClientBuilder. ElasticsearchHttpClientConfigurer resembles
>> HttpClientConfigCallback. Would you also re-define
>> RequestConfigCallback? What if new options get added to
>> RestClientBuilder? What's the benefit of this catch-up game?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 2017-06-02 14:47 GMT+02:00 Yoann Rodiere <yo...@hibernate.org>:
>> >> There's no exposure of HTTP Client in this SPI. Yes, if people need to
>> >> customize the HTTP client to be used by the returned RestClient
>> >> instance, they'll naturally depend on that. But this SPI isn't tied to
>> >> such detail of how RestClient works - if ES folks decided to use
>> >> OkHttp instead, our SPI contract won't be affected (of course user's
>> >> implementations will need to change if they were customizing the HTTP
>> >> client before).
>> >
>> > I would feel dishonest arguing this to users... Frankly, there's little
>> > point in returning a custom RestClient without customizing stuff related
>> > to
>> > Apache HTTP Client. See RestClientBuilder: apart from methods tied to
>> > Apache
>> > HTTP Client, and from options already provided by Hibernate Search, you
>> > only
>> > have access to these:
>> >
>> > org.elasticsearch.client.RestClientBuilder.setDefaultHeaders(Header[])
>> >
>> > org.elasticsearch.client.RestClientBuilder.setFailureListener(FailureListener)
>> > org.elasticsearch.client.RestClientBuilder.setPathPrefix(String)
>> >
>> > ... and that's all.
>> >
>> > So yes, this SPI doesn't have a direct dependency to Apache HTTP Client,
>> > but
>> > any practical use of it will have one. At the end of the day, that's
>> > what
>> > really matters, right?
>> >
>> > Yoann Rodière
>> > Hibernate NoORM Team
>> > yo...@hibernate.org
>> >
>> > On 2 June 2017 at 14:25, Gunnar Morling <gun...@hibernate.org> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> 2017-06-02 12:49 GMT+02:00 Yoann Rodiere <yo...@hibernate.org>:
>> >> >> There's an important difference: one exposes Apache HTTP client in
>> >> >> HSEARCH's SPI, whereas the other just requires usage of Apache HTTP
>> >> >> client within one specific implementation. For users it doesn't
>> >> >> change
>> >> >> much, but the latter is cleaner from HSEARCH's perspective.
>> >> >
>> >> > RestClient is not an interface, it's an implementation. There's no
>> >> > interface. So yes, we would just be exposing Apache HTTP Client on
>> >> > top
>> >> > of
>> >> > RestClient.
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> Here's what I'd have done:
>> >>
>> >> package org.hibernate.search.elasticsearch.client.spi;
>> >>
>> >> public interface RestClientFactory {
>> >> RestClient buildRestClient(SomeContext ctx);
>> >> }
>> >>
>> >> There's no exposure of HTTP Client in this SPI. Yes, if people need to
>> >> customize the HTTP client to be used by the returned RestClient
>> >> instance, they'll naturally depend on that. But this SPI isn't tied to
>> >> such detail of how RestClient works - if ES folks decided to use
>> >> OkHttp instead, our SPI contract won't be affected (of course user's
>> >> implementations will need to change if they were customizing the HTTP
>> >> client before).
>> >>
>> >> >> I'm not quite following on that. If people are in control of the
>> >> >> RestClient entirely, they can do whatever they want?
>> >> >
>> >> > As mentioned above, exposing RestClient is even worse than just
>> >> > exposing
>> >> > the
>> >> > Apache HTTP client.
>> >>
>> >> I don't think it's worse, it's better actually. It just exposes our
>> >> direct dependency in the SPI and not any of its details.
>> >>
>> >> > So I was suggesting to use a proper abstraction, namely our own
>> >> > interface,
>> >> > org.hibernate.search.elasticsearch.client.impl.ElasticsearchClient.
>> >> >
>> >> > I suppose your remark concerned this paragraph:
>> >> >
>> >> >> On top of that, this solution would not allow multiple third-party
>> >> >> customizations to work well together (for instance AWS
>> >> >> authentication
>> >> >> provided by us or a third party + some performance tweaking by the
>> >> >> user)...
>> >> >> which is something the SPI we're planning in the PR could allow.
>> >> >
>> >> > If we did allow users to re-implement ElasticsearchClient, yes, one
>> >> > implementor would be able to do whatever he wants... if he
>> >> > re-implements
>> >> > it.
>> >> > He wouldn't be able to re-use other extensions.
>> >> > Take for example the AWS authentication. You're suggestion that we
>> >> > provide
>> >> > an alternative client allowing to connect to AWS. Fine, we do that,
>> >> > and
>> >> > users can use it. But what if a users wants AWS authentication and
>> >> > say,
>> >> > configure a proxy? Then he can't reuse our AWS client, since this
>> >> > client
>> >> > is
>> >> > just an implementation of ElasticsearchClient, and we don't want to
>> >> > expose
>> >> > anything related to Apache HTTP Client. So he must implement AWS
>> >> > authentication. Just to configure a proxy.
>> >> >
>> >> > The thing is, there are tons of things a user may want to do with
>> >> > Apache
>> >> > HTTP Client, and we can't possibly provide access to each and every
>> >> > option
>> >> > through an abstraction layer.
>> >>
>> >> Right, hence I wouldn't bother to do that in the first place. Just let
>> >> users customize how RestClient is instantiated. Let's them do all they
>> >> want. We can provide examples which show how to do the AWS signing
>> >> etc.
>> >>
>> >> > So at some point, if we want to allow
>> >> > configuration (and in the case of an HTTP client, I'm afraid we have
>> >> > to),
>> >> > we'll have to expose internals. We just have to make sure this is
>> >> > done
>> >> > in a
>> >> > controlled way (expose as little as possible).
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Yoann Rodière
>> >> > Hibernate NoORM Team
>> >> > yo...@hibernate.org
>> >> >
>> >> > On 2 June 2017 at 12:26, Gunnar Morling <gun...@hibernate.org> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> 2017-06-02 11:58 GMT+02:00 Yoann Rodiere <yo...@hibernate.org>:
>> >> >> >> Did you instead consider to just let users provide their custom
>> >> >> >> instance of org.elasticsearch.client.RestClient? It's still
>> >> >> >> leaking
>> >> >> >> an
>> >> >> >> implementation detail of Hibernate Search, but at least it's one
>> >> >> >> indirection less.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > The only way to add AWS authentication to the RestClient is to use
>> >> >> > Apache
>> >> >> > HTTP Client classes, so this solution would still bind users to
>> >> >> > the
>> >> >> > implementation details. We'd just shove it under the carpet :)
>> >> >>
>> >> >> There's an important difference: one exposes Apache HTTP client in
>> >> >> HSEARCH's SPI, whereas the other just requires usage of Apache HTTP
>> >> >> client within one specific implementation. For users it doesn't
>> >> >> change
>> >> >> much, but the latter is cleaner from HSEARCH's perspective.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Also, I'd argue this would be an even bigger implementation leak:
>> >> >> > at
>> >> >> > least
>> >> >> > with the current solution with can switch to an alternative
>> >> >> > Elasticsearch
>> >> >> > client, as long as we still use Apache HTTP Client. If we expose
>> >> >> > RestClient,
>> >> >> > we're stuck with it and whatever underlying technologies it uses.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > On the other hand, we could ask them to re-implement
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > org.hibernate.search.elasticsearch.client.impl.ElasticsearchClient,
>> >> >> > which is
>> >> >> > our own façade over the Elasticsearch client. But I find it a bit
>> >> >> > much
>> >> >> > just
>> >> >> > to tweak some settings or to add a new authentication scheme...
>> >> >> > On top of that, this solution would not allow multiple third-party
>> >> >> > customizations to work well together (for instance AWS
>> >> >> > authentication
>> >> >> > provided by us or a third party + some performance tweaking by the
>> >> >> > user)...
>> >> >> > which is something the SPI we're planning in the PR could allow.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I'm not quite following on that. If people are in control of the
>> >> >> RestClient entirely, they can do whatever they want?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Yoann Rodière
>> >> >> > Hibernate NoORM Team
>> >> >> > yo...@hibernate.org
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > On 2 June 2017 at 10:30, Sanne Grinovero <sa...@hibernate.org>
>> >> >> > wrote:
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> On Fri, 2 Jun 2017, 08:56 Gunnar Morling, <gun...@hibernate.org>
>> >> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> > Hi,
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > I find the exposure of an implementation detail (usage of
>> >> >> >> > Apache
>> >> >> >> > HTTP
>> >> >> >> > client) of the Elasticsearch client a bit problematic. If they
>> >> >> >> > change
>> >> >> >> > this to another HTTP client, our SPI would break.
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Yes the very point of exposing that detail is the reason for this
>> >> >> >> thread.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Still, our SPI being guaranteed only for a minor, that gives a
>> >> >> >> lot
>> >> >> >> of
>> >> >> >> flexibility?
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> The Elasticsearch client exposing this itself, I don't expect
>> >> >> >> them
>> >> >> >> to
>> >> >> >> switch implementation in a micro release to make some bugfix. If
>> >> >> >> they
>> >> >> >> change it in a major or even minor version, we're ok to not
>> >> >> >> support
>> >> >> >> that
>> >> >> >> version until our next minor.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> > Did you instead consider to just let users provide their custom
>> >> >> >> > instance of org.elasticsearch.client.RestClient? It's still
>> >> >> >> > leaking
>> >> >> >> > an
>> >> >> >> > implementation detail of Hibernate Search, but at least it's
>> >> >> >> > one
>> >> >> >> > indirection less.
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > People wishing to have a custom RestClient would have to
>> >> >> >> > implement
>> >> >> >> > a
>> >> >> >> > few more bits themselves (the logic from
>> >> >> >> > DefaultElasticsearchClientFactory#customizeHttpClientConfig()),
>> >> >> >> > but
>> >> >> >> > I'd find that acceptable for the sake of a less detail-exposing
>> >> >> >> > SPI,
>> >> >> >> > plus it grants more flexibility in terms of configuring the
>> >> >> >> > RestClient.
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> N.B. The client factory already is a Service so any advanced user
>> >> >> >> already
>> >> >> >> can override it.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> We want to make it easier for cloud users. Focusing on AWS now as
>> >> >> >> we've
>> >> >> >> had
>> >> >> >> user requests for this - not least our own CI - but I'd expect
>> >> >> >> other
>> >> >> >> clouds
>> >> >> >> to have similar features (today or tomorrow). I just don't expect
>> >> >> >> other
>> >> >> >> use
>> >> >> >> cases to need this so we might provide them all eventually, but
>> >> >> >> at
>> >> >> >> this
>> >> >> >> point my goal is to leave an appealing SPI for contributors to
>> >> >> >> join
>> >> >> >> on
>> >> >> >> that.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> With that I mean:
>> >> >> >> 1# this might evolve but we need something simple to use for
>> >> >> >> people
>> >> >> >> to
>> >> >> >> not
>> >> >> >> get stuck.
>> >> >> >> 2# I expect integrator implementors to contribute them back
>> >> >> >> 3# People won't have this low level dependency in their projects
>> >> >> >> for
>> >> >> >> long
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Having them re-implement the client wouldn't encourage this ;)
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Thanks!
>> >> >> >> Sanne
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> > --Gunnar
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > 2017-06-01 19:11 GMT+02:00 Sanne Grinovero
>> >> >> >> > <sa...@hibernate.org>:
>> >> >> >> > > Yoann has been working on allowing Hibernate Search users to
>> >> >> >> > > use
>> >> >> >> > > Elasticsearch on AWS.
>> >> >> >> > >
>> >> >> >> > > Specifically on AWS the Elasticsearch security can be
>> >> >> >> > > configured
>> >> >> >> > > to
>> >> >> >> > > use application identities, which implies the requests need
>> >> >> >> > > to
>> >> >> >> > > be
>> >> >> >> > > signed.
>> >> >> >> > >
>> >> >> >> > > A good background read can be found here [1].
>> >> >> >> > >
>> >> >> >> > > We planned to allow people to use this but were not planning
>> >> >> >> > > to
>> >> >> >> > > include AWS specific libraries as dependencies - but since
>> >> >> >> > > Yoann
>> >> >> >> > > implemented an actual AWS signer in the tests I suppose it
>> >> >> >> > > would
>> >> >> >> > > be
>> >> >> >> > > selfish to not ship it..
>> >> >> >> > >
>> >> >> >> > > Please see the API proposal on github (with the PR):
>> >> >> >> > > - https://github.com/hibernate/hibernate-search/pull/1426
>> >> >> >> > >
>> >> >> >> > > Thanks,
>> >> >> >> > > Sanne
>> >> >> >> > >
>> >> >> >> > > [1] -
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/security/how-to-control-access-to-your-amazon-elasticsearch-service-domain/
>> >> >> >> > > _______________________________________________
>> >> >> >> > > hibernate-dev mailing list
>> >> >> >> > > hibernate-dev@lists.jboss.org
>> >> >> >> > > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> >> >> hibernate-dev mailing list
>> >> >> >> hibernate-dev@lists.jboss.org
>> >> >> >> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >
>> >
>
>
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