Re: HTML node names: Not emitting 'Top (Manual name)'</span></a></span> </h1> <p class="darkgray font13"> <span class="sender pipe"><a href="/search?l=help-texinfo@gnu.org&q=from:%22Arsen+Arsenovi%C4%87%22" rel="nofollow"><span itemprop="author" itemscope itemtype="http://schema.org/Person"><span itemprop="name">Arsen Arsenović</span></span></a></span> <span class="date"><a href="/search?l=help-texinfo@gnu.org&q=date:20240314" rel="nofollow">Thu, 14 Mar 2024 14:34:27 -0700</a></span> </p> </div> <div itemprop="articleBody" class="msgBody"> <!--X-Body-of-Message--> <pre>Hi Gavin, Eli, Gavin Smith <gavinsmith0...@gmail.com> writes: > On Wed, Mar 13, 2024 at 09:25:44PM +0200, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> > Nobody complained about this breaking any stability. >> >> Ha! the amount of grief those changes caused the Emacs maintainers is >> beyond complaining. We have a script that massages the produced HTML >> manuals for the Web site, and we run the script each time another >> Emacs version is released and the manual needs to be updated on the >> Web site. Every single release of Texinfo, until very recently, >> would break the script and cause me personally and my colleagues a >> lot of gray hair wand wasted time. So much so that I seriously >> considered to stop updating to the latest Texinfo on the system where >> I usually work on Emacs releases.</pre><pre> May I ask, what do these scripts do? If so much fragile post-processing is needed, perhaps Texinfo should be altered to be more extensible or such.. IMO, the fact that a GNU project had to resolve to that is a sign of dysfunction. Making a stable and abstract way to accommodate for all sorts of needs isn't very simple, and won't happen overnight, but IMO, if there is indeed need like this, it should happen. >> Finally, a few Texinfo versions ago, these changes have stopped, and >> we had a few Emacs releases without a single problem in this area. >> No longer, it looks like... >> >> And no, I didn't complain, because I never imagined (and don't imagine >> now) that someone would seriously consider backing out the offending >> changes, just because one project suffers from them. But you'd be >> wrong taking silence for a sign of no problems. > By all means, if changing the page title for the Top node causes > significant problems, we can avoid making this change. But it is > hard to imagine why it would cause a problem. > > I don't mind avoiding this time for the time being, if it is felt > there has been a lot of change to the HTML output recently. Once > things settle down, we could revisit this. This could be a customization variable or such in the meanwhile too. >> Once again: IME making breaking changes "just because we can" is not >> the best strategy for stable projects. But I'm not a Texinfo >> maintainer, so my opinions on this probably doesn't mean much... > > The change being proposed here wasn't for no reason. Indeed, thanks for acknowledging. Have a lovely evening! -- Arsen Arsenović </pre> <p><strong><a href="msg03245/signature.asc" ><img src="../attachment.png" alt="Attachment:" width=27 height=28></a> <a href="msg03245/signature.asc" >signature.asc</a></strong><br> <em>Description:</em> PGP signature</p> </div> <div class="msgButtons margintopdouble"> <ul class="overflow"> <li class="msgButtonItems"><a class="button buttonleft " accesskey="p" href="msg03244.html">Previous message</a></li> <li class="msgButtonItems textaligncenter"><a class="button" accesskey="c" href="index.html#03245">View by thread</a></li> <li class="msgButtonItems textaligncenter"><a class="button" accesskey="i" href="maillist.html#03245">View by date</a></li> <li class="msgButtonItems textalignright"><a class="button buttonright " accesskey="n" href="msg03247.html">Next message</a></li> </ul> </div> <a name="tslice"></a> <div class="tSliceList margintopdouble"> <ul class="icons monospace"> <li class="icons-email"><span class="subject"><a href="msg03238.html">HTML <title> node names: Not emitting 'Top (Manual ...</a></span> <span class="sender italic">Arsen Arsenović</span></li> <li><ul> <li class="icons-email"><span class="subject"><a href="msg03239.html">Re: HTML <title> node names: Not emitting 'Top...</a></span> <span class="sender italic">Gavin Smith</span></li> <li><ul> <li class="icons-email"><span class="subject"><a href="msg03240.html">Re: HTML <title> node names: Not emitting ...</a></span> <span class="sender italic">Eli Zaretskii</span></li> <li><ul> <li class="icons-email"><span class="subject"><a href="msg03241.html">Re: HTML <title> node names: Not emitt...</a></span> <span class="sender italic">Arsen Arsenović</span></li> <li><ul> <li class="icons-email"><span class="subject"><a href="msg03242.html">Re: HTML <title> node names: Not e...</a></span> <span class="sender italic">Gavin Smith</span></li> <li><ul> <li class="icons-email"><span class="subject"><a href="msg03243.html">Re: HTML <title> node names: ...</a></span> <span class="sender italic">Eli Zaretskii</span></li> <li><ul> <li class="icons-email"><span class="subject"><a href="msg03244.html">Re: HTML <title> node nam...</a></span> <span class="sender italic">Gavin Smith</span></li> <li><ul> <li class="icons-email tSliceCur"><span class="subject">Re: HTML <title> node...</span> <span class="sender italic">Arsen Arsenović</span></li> <li class="icons-email"><span class="subject"><a href="msg03247.html">Re: HTML <title> node...</a></span> <span class="sender italic">Eli Zaretskii</span></li> <li class="icons-email"><span class="subject"><a href="msg03255.html">Re: HTML <title> node...</a></span> <span class="sender italic">Patrice Dumas</span></li> <li class="icons-email"><span class="subject"><a href="msg03265.html">Re: HTML <title> node...</a></span> <span class="sender italic">Patrice Dumas</span></li> </ul></li> <li class="icons-email"><span class="subject"><a href="msg03246.html">Re: HTML <title> node nam...</a></span> <span class="sender italic">Patrice Dumas</span></li> <li><ul> <li class="icons-email"><span class="subject"><a href="msg03248.html">Re: HTML <title> node...</a></span> <span class="sender italic">Eli Zaretskii</span></li> <li class="icons-email"><span class="subject"><a href="msg03249.html">Re: HTML <title> node...</a></span> <span class="sender italic">Gavin Smith</span></li> <li class="icons-email"><span class="subject"><a href="msg03251.html">Re: HTML <title> node...</a></span> <span class="sender italic">Eli Zaretskii</span></li> <li class="icons-email"><span class="subject"><a href="msg03253.html">Re: HTML <title> node...</a></span> <span class="sender italic">pertusus</span></li> <li class="icons-email"><span class="subject"><a href="msg03256.html">Re: HTML <title> node...</a></span> <span class="sender italic">Eli Zaretskii</span></li> <li class="icons-email"><span class="subject"><a href="msg03257.html">Re: HTML <title> node...</a></span> <span class="sender 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