Am Dienstag, 31. Juli 2012 schrieb Akim Demaille: > Hi Martin, Hi Akim, > Sorry about this, but I have no answers. If licens...@gnu.org > does not answer, I don't know what else I could do.
Hmmm… Anyone a suggestion on how to move forward? Thanks, Martin > > Akim > > Le 24 juil. 2012 à 16:34, Martin Steigerwald a écrit : > > Am Mittwoch, 4. Juli 2012 schrieb Akim Demaille: > >> Hi all, > > > > Hi Akim and Brett, > > > >> I have added Bret in CC, as he is the one to deal with licenses > >> and exceptions. > > > > Any progress? > > > > Thanks, > > Martin > > > >> Le 3 juil. 2012 à 09:47, Martin Steigerwald a écrit : > >>> Please keep Cc, as I am not subscribed to help-bison or > >>> filebench-developers. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Dear bison developers, dear FSF licensing team, dear filebench > >>> developers, > >>> > >>> Alex Mestiashvili and I have packaged filebench for Debian. But now I > >>> wonder whether we may legally distribute it. > >>> > >>> Bison uses a bison generated parser from parser_gram.y and these > >>> generated > >>> > >>> files are: > >>> | Files: parser_gram.c parser_gram.h > >>> | Copyright: 1984, 1989, 1990, 2000-2011 Free Software Foundation, Inc. > >>> | > >>> | C LALR(1) parser skeleton written by Richard Stallman, by > >>> | simplifying the original so-called "semantic" parser. > >>> | > >>> | License: GPL-3+ with exception > >>> | This package is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify > >>> | […] > >>> | As a special exception, you may create a larger work that contains > >>> | part or all of the Bison parser skeleton and distribute that work > >>> | under terms of your choice, so long as that work isn't itself a > >>> | parser generator using the skeleton or a modified version thereof > >>> | as a parser skeleton. Alternatively, if you modify or redistribute > >>> | the parser skeleton itself, you may (at your option) remove this > >>> | special exception, which will cause the skeleton and the resulting > >>> | Bison output files to be licensed under the GNU General Public > >>> | License without this special exception. > >>> | . > >>> | This special exception was added by the Free Software Foundation in > >>> | version 2.2 of Bison. > >>> > >>> Is this compatible with CDDL-1? > >> > >> If you fall into case one (you just "use" Bison the regular way), > >> yes it is (IANAL, but that was a design goal when the exception > >> was designed: Bison's output _can_ be used to produce proprietary > >> software) > >> > >>> As far as I understand CDDL-1 and GPL are not compatible, but when I > >>> read this special exception correctly, in the case that no new parser > >>> generator is done any terms, any license can be used for the resulting > >>> work. > >>> > >>> I asked this already on debian-legal and got an IANAL response back > >>> that indicates that the exception could be interpreted from its intent > >>> or its wording and this gives different results as to the > >>> redistributability of the software – see below. > >>> > >>> Dear FSF licensing team, dear bison developers, can you elaborate on > >>> that? > >>> > >>> If its not clearly redistributable then what changes could make it so? > >>> > >>> Thanks, > >>> Martin > >>> > >>> > >>> ---------- Weitergeleitete Nachricht ---------- > >>> > >>> Betreff: Re: filebench: bison generated parser + CDDL > >>> Datum: Samstag, 2. Juni 2012, 22:29:41 > >>> Von: Mark Weyer <m...@weyer-zuhause.de> > >>> An: debian-le...@lists.debian.org > >>> > >>> On Fri, Jun 01, 2012 at 01:45:06PM +0200, Martin Steigerwald wrote: > >>>> Am Montag, 7. Mai 2012 schrieb Mark Weyer: > >>>>> Just a quick note: If you are right about the incompatibility of > >>>>> CDDL-1 and GPLv3 (others on this list will know if you are), then > >>>>> the combined work is non-free: Its license terms discriminate > >>>>> against a field of endeavour, namely developing a parser generator. > >>>> > >>>> I don´t understand this. > >>>> > >>>> I understand the exception > >>>> > >>>> | As a special exception, you may create a larger work that contains > >>>> | part or all of the Bison parser skeleton and distribute that work > >>>> | under terms of your choice, so long as that work isn't itself a > >>>> | parser generator using the skeleton or a modified version thereof > >>>> | as a parser skeleton. Alternatively, if you modify or redistribute > >>>> | the parser skeleton itself, you may (at your option) remove this > >>>> | special exception, which will cause the skeleton and the resulting > >>>> | Bison output files to be licensed under the GNU General Public > >>>> | License without this special exception. > >>>> > >>>> so that it allows distributing the software under any other license as > >>>> long as the generated parser isn´t a parser generator in itself. > >>>> > >>>> I don´t think that the parser in here is a parser generator. As far as > >>>> I understand parser_gram.c and parser_gram.h just parses loadable > >>>> workload descriptions. > >> > >> Really, parse-gram.[ch] are invisible internal details about the > >> implementation of Bison, that's not what we are referring to. > >> "Skeletons" are the templates that are in data/ (yacc.c, glr.c, > >> etc.) which are parameterized by bison (the executable). The > >> exception is designed to state that as long as you use Bison > >> as is, you don't have constraints. But if you modify skeletons > >> or Bison itself, then the GPLv3 applies without the exception > >> clause. > >> > >>> It is less clear than I thought. > >>> > >>> Let A be a work with a parser generated by bison and assume that A is > >>> not a parser generator. It appears that the exception allows the > >>> authors of A to place A under any license they want to, effectively > >>> overriding the GPL-and-exception. Suppose they choose something like > >>> the MIT license. Then they, or someone else, retrieves the parser > >>> skeleton (now under the MIT license) from A and uses it as a parser > >>> skeleton for a commercial parser generator B. The exception is clearly > >>> not intended to allow that. Reading its letter, I do not see that it > >>> actually achieves that intent. > >> > >> Skeletons are really dynamic, they are not plain files with > >> simple substitutions, they are "run" by M4. So this scenario > >> does not make sense in practice, IMHO. > >> > >>> How I read the exception on May 7, I thought that it would not be > >>> deleted by relicensing, but that its requirement would persist in all > >>> modified version of A. Which is the only way (I can see) that the > >>> exception achieves its intent. > >>> > >>> The true question is, of course, whether a court would judge in favour > >>> of the exception's letter or its intent. > >>> > >>> If it judges in favour of its intent: Taking the CDDL'ed filebench for > >>> A and some modified version B of A, by copyleft (of both the > >>> GPL-and-exception and the CDDL) we have the same license situation in B > >>> as in A. Now if B is as above, the exception is not applicable and thus > >>> (assuming that GPL and CDDL are incompatible) B is not distributable. > >>> Thus the combined licenses forbid distribution of (some) modified > >>> versions and the package is non-free. > >>> > >>> If the court judges in favour of the exception's letter, then your > >>> upstream can put parser_gram.c and parser_gram.h under the CDDL and > >>> everything is fine (You can't do that yourself, because > >>> A: the exception grants that right only to the creator of the larger > >>> work and B: if upstream does not exercise the right of the exception, > >>> then they do not > >>> > >>> have the right to distribute filebench under anything other than the > >>> GPL.) > >>> > >>> I am not a lawyer, this is not legal advice, et cetera. > >>> > >>> Mark Weyer > >>> > >>> -- > >>> To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-legal-requ...@lists.debian.org > >>> with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact > >>> listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: > >>> http://lists.debian.org/20120602202941.GA1911@debian > >>> > >>> > >>> ------------------------------------------------------------- > >>> > >>> Ciao, -- Martin Steigerwald Trainer / Consultant teamix GmbH Solide IT-Infrastruktur Südwestpark 35 90449 Nürnberg fon: +49 (911) 30999- 0 fax: +49 (911) 30999-99 mail: m...@teamix.de web: http://www.teamix.de vcf: http://www.teamix.de/vcf/ms.vcf gpg: 19E3 8D42 896F D004 08AC A0CA 1E10 C593 0399 AE90 Amtsgericht Nürnberg, HRB 18320 Geschäftsführer: Oliver Kügow, Richard Müller _______________________________________________ help-bison@gnu.org https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/help-bison
