July 5, 2022 11:36 AM, "Akib Azmain Turja" <a...@disroot.org> wrote:
> jbra...@dismail.de writes: > >> July 5, 2022 12:48 AM, "Akib Azmain Turja" <a...@disroot.org> wrote: >> >>> jbra...@dismail.de writes: >> >> July 4, 2022 1:36 PM, "Akib Azmain Turja" <a...@disroot.org> wrote: >> >> Ludovic Courtès <l...@gnu.org> writes: >> >> Hi! >> >> Leo Famulari <l...@famulari.name> skribis: >> The effort to use the Rust programming language within the Linux kernel >> is progressing and may be realized in the next few months: >> >> https://lwn.net/SubscriberLink/899182/6c831b90eaee015e >> https://www.memorysafety.org/blog/memory-safety-in-linux-kernel >> >> Within Guix, we'll need to adapt our kernel build processes in order to >> support this. >> >> Although I help with updating and configuring the kernel builds, I won't >> be able to participate in the "Rust in the kernel" effort for Guix. >> >> Understood… >> So, interested volunteers should begin organizing :) >> >> Yup! >> >> Now, concretely, how long will it take before key parts of the kernel >> are written in Rust? Hopefully a long time, no? Per the article above, >> it’s starting small, with Rust usage in well-defined locations. >> >> This is not to say that we shouldn’t start organizing, but rather that >> we still have a bit of time ahead. >> >> (During that time, interested readers can also take a stab at improving >> support for the Hurd, which relies on that revolutionary technology >> called “address spaces” to ensure Memory Safety™ among other things!) >> >> Ludo’. >> "Address spaces"! What's that? Sorry for asking without searching the >> internet first, but the Hurd designers are so creative that a few >> understand the concepts and join the community, so there is a little >> chance (if any) that I'll find any useful information on that. >> >> From the Hurd wiki: https://www.gnu.org/software/hurd/advantages.html >> >> The Hurd is built in a very modular fashion. Other Unix-like kernels >> (Linux, for example) are also modular in that they allow loading >> (and unloading) some components as kernel modules, but the Hurd goes >> one step further in that most of the components that constitute the >> whole kernel are running as separate user-space processes and are thus >> using different address spaces that are isolated from each other. >> This is a multi-server design based on a microkernel. It is not >> possible that a faulty memory dereference inside the TCP/IP stack >> can bring down the whole kernel, and thus the whole system, which >> is a real problem in a monolithic Unix kernel architecture. >> >> Some visual explantions: >> >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microkernel#/media/File:OS-structure.svg >> >> The Hurd is on the right in this image. >>> Thanks, now I understand Ludo' was saying about virtual address space, >>> achieved using paging. >> >> Essentially, if your fileserver somehow gets hacked, the attacker >> cannot magically access your TCP/IP stack, because your TCP/IP is not >> in the some "software zone" as your fileserver. So microkernels like >> the Hurd are usually considered more secure and better designed >> than monolithic kernels like Linux. However, monolithic kernels >> will usually be faster than microkernels. >>> I know microkernels are theorically slow due to the heavy use IPC. But >>> is it really impossible for well written microkernel to beat a well >>> written monolithic kernel? L4 is super-fast, is it still slower than >>> Linux? >> >> Probably a little, but I am not an expert in that area. >> >> GNU Mach, which is what the Hurd runs on. Is slower that Linux. >> There was an attempt to port the Hurd to L4 before. It is >> deemed not possible by the current hurd developers. > > Yes, I know that Mach is one of the slowest kernels. BTW, what's the > status of Viengoos? I believe that Viengoos is essentially dead. I do not believe that anyone is actively working on it. More info is available here: http://www.gnu.org/software/hurd/history/port_to_another_microkernel.html > >>> >> >> -- >> Akib Azmain Turja >> >> This message is signed by me with my GnuPG key. It's fingerprint is: >> >> 7001 8CE5 819F 17A3 BBA6 66AF E74F 0EFA 922A E7F5 >>> -- >>> Akib Azmain Turja >>> >>> This message is signed by me with my GnuPG key. It's fingerprint is: >>> >>> 7001 8CE5 819F 17A3 BBA6 66AF E74F 0EFA 922A E7F5 > > -- > Akib Azmain Turja > > This message is signed by me with my GnuPG key. It's fingerprint is: > > 7001 8CE5 819F 17A3 BBA6 66AF E74F 0EFA 922A E7F5
