Hi  Tim,
Thanks again Tim. A naive question - if I use the datastore generated keys
and sort by the keys desc (for pagination) the key value of new data
inserted will be greater than that of previously entered data (if I do a
keytostring and a string compare?).

In other words does the datastore generate keys in a order or at random. I
did some experiments and I found that pagination works according to
date/time of insert if I  just sort keys by descending but just wanted to
make sure.
Regards,
Manny

On Sat, Feb 13, 2010 at 1:17 PM, Tim Hoffman <[email protected]> wrote:

> Hi Manny
>
> Understood.
>
> You know you can let the system generate the entity identifiers for
> you, and pagination will
> just work (by __key__) any way.  So you don't have to the key_name or
> id at all
> if you don't care what the key is.
>
> Rgds
>
> T
>
> On Feb 13, 1:00 am, Manny S <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Thanks a bunch Tim for your inputs,
> >
> > My rationale  for adding the date to the appstore generated key is to
> make
> > pagination easier. I would do pagination on the key and not add a
> separate
> > column for that. (Pagination by date alone will also not solve my problem
> > since it can have duplicates and hence couple it with the key)
> >
> > I understand fetching by keys is much faster. Though I don't see a
> scenario
> > where I would have to do that now I would like to architect my app where
> > that would be possible. However, I do not have anything unique in my
> record
> > with which I can set the key. It just contains city name, locality
> details
> > and a series of other fields all of which could have duplicates. Any
> ideas
> > as to how I can generate unique ids from these or any general pointers
> > towards generating unique Ids from data where the data itself does not
> have
> > a unique field?
> >
> > Manny
> >
> > On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 4:49 PM, Tim Hoffman <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > Hi Manny
> >
> > > Do you really want to do that for a key.  One if the big advantages of
> > > creating your own keys
> > > is being able to explicitly get entities by key (1 or more with
> > > db.get(list_of_keys) which is much
> > > quicker than a gql or filter.  Making your keys include dates mean you
> > > will be unlikely to
> > > guess/know what the keys are in advance.
> >
> > > This of course may not be useful for what you are doing, but worth
> > > keeping in mind.
> >
> > > Rgds
> >
> > > T
> >
> > > On Feb 11, 2:12 pm, Manny S <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > > Hi Ikai,
> >
> > > > I did read the documentation and now I have my data structures in
> place.
> > > One
> > > > thing I wanted to do and that was not clear from my previous post was
> to
> > > > append a app generated string (not unique) as a prefix to a datastore
> > > > generated key. For instance, I want to generate a key that has the
>  date
> > > (of
> > > > record creation) as a prefix to the datastore generated unique key.
>  Is
> > > > there a way to do this? I do not want my application to generate
> unique
> > > Ids.
> >
> > > > From reading through the literature so far, I am guessing that will
> not
> > > be
> > > > possible since the datastore keys are generated only at the time when
> the
> > > > objects are being made persistent.
> >
> > > > Manny
> >
> > > > On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 3:30 AM, Ikai L (Google) <[email protected]>
> > > wrote:
> >
> > > > > Have you read our documentation on KeyFactory?
> >
> > > > >
> http://code.google.com/appengine/docs/java/datastore/relationships.html
> >
> > > > > <
> > >http://code.google.com/appengine/docs/java/datastore/relationships.html
> > > >I'd
> > > > > try to understand what's going on there. It sounds like you're
> doing it
> > > the
> > > > > right way, but it's up to you to benchmark and find the best
> approach
> > > for
> > > > > what works for you. The usage characteristics of your application
> > > should
> > > > > determine the way your store your data.
> >
> > > > > On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 3:42 AM, Manny S <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> >
> > > > >> Ikai,
> > > > >> Based on your inputs I created two data classes that have a
> > > unidirectional
> > > > >> one-to-one relationship
> > > > >> Now, I have two data classes simpledata and detailscol.
> > > > >> simpledata contains fields A, B, C (and a Key field)
> > > > >> detailscol just contains field D.
> >
> > > > >> simpledata imports detailscol that contains field D (and a Key
> field).
> > > It
> > > > >> also contains an accessor for the detailscol.
> > > > >> Code:
> > > > >> simpledata sdata = new simpledata(A,B,C);
> > > > >> sdata.setKey(null);
> > > > >> detailscol obj = new detailscol(D);
> > > > >> sdata.setD(obj);
> >
> > > > >> The keys are generated by the application and then I make the data
> > > > >> persistent.
> >
> > > > >> Now, I display just the data in simpledata and if the user clicks
> on a
> > > > >> details link I get the data stored in detailscol
> > > > >> To get to that data I just do
> >
> > > > >> detailscol d = sdata.getDetails();
> >
> > > > >> Two questions:
> >
> > > > >> 1) Is this the right approach?
> >
> > > > >> 2) If I want to get the child data using just the parent keyhow do
> I
> > > go
> > > > >> about it?
> >
> > > > >> E.g, user clicks details and I use some AJAX to redirect to a
> > > different
> > > > >> servlet with just parent key as a parameter (since I don't access
> the
> > > child
> > > > >> object yet). I get the parent key using
> > > > >> KeyFactory.keyToString(sdata.getKey());
> >
> > > > >> Now, that I have the parent's key should I do a getObjectbyID on
> the
> > > > >> parent data again using this and then get the child using the
> accessor
> > > > >> method or is there a direct way to construct the child key and get
> to
> > > the
> > > > >> child data.
> >
> > > > >> Due to the nature of my application I would like to have the key
> > > generated
> > > > >> automatically (using setKey(null)).
> >
> > > > >> Apologies for the confusion in advance :)
> >
> > > > >> Manny
> >
> > > > >> On Sat, Jan 30, 2010 at 12:16 AM, Ikai L (Google) <
> [email protected]
> > > >wrote:
> >
> > > > >>> Hi Manny,
> >
> > > > >>> A few things to first remember - App Engine's datastore is not a
> > > > >>> database, but a distributed key value store with additional
> features.
> > > Thus,
> > > > >>> we should be careful not to frame our thinking in terms of RDBMS
> > > schemas.
> > > > >>> For this reason, I like to avoid using database terminology that
> can
> > > > >>> confound the design process like "table" or "column". App Engine
> > > stores
> > > > >>> objects serialized ("entities") and indexes on the values. It'd
> be
> > > similar
> > > > >>> to an approach of creating a MySQL table with a String ID and a
> blob
> > > value,
> > > > >>> storing serialized Objects in the blob column, or using Memcache
> and
> > > storing
> > > > >>> JSON values.
> >
> > > > >>> When you retrieve a single value from the key value store, we
> have to
> > > > >>> retrieve everything at once. In most scenarios, unlike SQL
> databases
> > > you may
> > > > >>> be used to, retrieving large binary or text data does not add
> serious
> > > > >>> overhead. Of course, this changes if you start storing data on
> the
> > > scale of
> > > > >>> 1mb and are retrieving it unnecessarily. How large is the data
> you
> > > are
> > > > >>> retrieving?
> >
> > > > >>> Here's the way I would model your scenario if I was positive the
> > > > >>> text/binary field had a 1:1 relationship with the parent class:
> >
> > > > >>> * on your main entity, define the properties.
> > > > >>> * define a new entity with a text/binary field, and encode the
> parent
> > > key
> > > > >>> information in this key such that generating the key for this
> child
> > > field is
> > > > >>> very cheap. KeyFactory.stringToKey and KeyFactory.keyToString are
> > > crucial
> > > > >>> here. Read more about them here:
> >
> > >http://code.google.com/appengine/docs/java/javadoc/com/google/appengi..
> ..
> > > > >>> You can call your child property "parent_id:additional_info" or
> > > whatever
> > > > >>> makes sense to you.
> >
> > > > >>> Robert's solution of using a child key is basically just a
> variation
> > > on
> > > > >>> this, as parent key information is encoded in a child key.
> >
> > > > >>> A lot of this stuff can be a bit different to get used to. I
> suggest
> > > > >>> becoming familiar with keys and how they are used in App Engine:
> >
> > > > >>> Basic documentation about relationships:
> >
> > >http://code.google.com/appengine/docs/java/datastore/relationships.html
> > > > >>> A more advanced article:
> > > > >>>http://code.google.com/appengine/articles/storage_breakdown.html
> >
> > > > >>>   On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 10:28 PM, Manny S <
> [email protected]
> > > >wrote:
> >
> > > > >>>>   Hi All,
> >
> > > > >>>> First off, thanks for your time. A quick noob question on the
> right
> > > way
> > > > >>>> to model data.
> >
> > > > >>>> I have a table with four columns A,B,C, D.  D - the fourth is of
> > > type
> > > > >>>> text (contains quite a bit of data).
> >
> > > > >>>> I wanted to ensure that the contents of the details column 'D'
> is
> > > not
> > > > >>>> fetched during a query. A sample scenario
> > > > >>>> User does a search. Sees Columns A,B,C. If they need more
> details
> > > for
> > > > >>>> that particular record Click on a link that fetches D for that
> > > particular
> > > > >>>> record.
> >
> > > > >>>> So I tried to do something like - Select A, B, C from tablename.
> >
> > > > >>>> I found from the documentation that the GQL query returns full
> data
> > > > >>>> objects and so all queries start with SELECT *.  Is this true
> for
> > > JDOQL on
> > > > >>>> the datastore as well? Does this mean everytime I query the data
> > > store its
> > > > >>>> going to return all columns consuming bandwidth?
> >
> > > > >>>> Also since I want the content of COlumn D to be fetched on
> > > subsequent
> > > > >>>> user action so should I instead create two tables one with
> >
> > > > >>>> ID_TB1, A, B, C
> >
> > > > >>>> and the other one with
> >
> > > > >>>> ID, ID_TB1, D?
> >
> > > > >>>> Manny
> >
> > > > >>>> --
> > > > >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the
> Google
> > > > >>>> Groups "Google App Engine" group.
> > > > >>>> To post to this group, send email to
> > > [email protected].
> > > > >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > > > >>>> [email protected]<google-appengine%[email protected]>
> <google-appengine%[email protected]<google-appengine%[email protected]>
> >
> > > <google-appengine%[email protected]<google-appengine%[email protected]>
> <google-appengine%[email protected]<google-appengine%[email protected]>
> >
> >
> > > > >>>> .
> > > > >>>> For more options, visit this group at
> > > > >>>>http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
> >
> > > > >>> --
> > > > >>> Ikai Lan
> > > > >>> Developer Programs Engineer, Google App Engine
> > > > >>>http://googleappengine.blogspot.com|http://twitter.com/app_engine
> >
> > > > >>> --
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> <google-appengine%[email protected]<google-appengine%[email protected]>
> >
> > > <google-appengine%[email protected]<google-appengine%[email protected]>
> <google-appengine%[email protected]<google-appengine%[email protected]>
> >
> >
> > > > >>> .
> > > > >>> For more options, visit this group at
> > > > >>>http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
> >
> > > > >>  --
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> > > > >> To post to this group, send
> >
> > ...
> >
> > read more ยป
>
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