OO as a fad? This is Thanksgiving not April Fool’s Day. > On Nov 24, 2022, at 3:25 PM, TheDiveO <harald.albre...@gmx.net> wrote: > > Reading the "yes and no" part as a newcomer to Go actually made me snigger > and I though that this kind of answer shows a thorough and differentiated > thinking not shy of dealing with complexity as it is without trying to flee > into simple and useless label simplification. IMHO the problem is not seeing > concepts like OO as a fad, but instead the people struggling with complex > topics and fleeing into blissful simplification. Maybe I should throw in here > "embedding" so we might save on house heating this time of year. > On Thursday, November 24, 2022 at 12:49:27 PM UTC+1 kziem...@gmail.com wrote: > "Saying "yes or no" is a non-answer. :)" > From people new to coding, I guess so. For people with good background, this > is a good answer, since rest of the FAQ entry explain enough that they can > say "Ok. I think I'm getting it.". BTW in FAQ it is "Yes and no.". > > So true question is: who is asking and how detailed answer he or she needs? > > Best regards, > Kamil > czwartek, 24 listopada 2022 o 12:44:56 UTC+1 Kamil Ziemian napisał(a): > I will start with cautionary tell. At one of his public talks Bjarne > Stroustrup in some way, admited that he made a very bad job when teaching > people C++ and now we must live with many bad practices being a norm and even > adviced as good practices. In Stroustrup words > "I didn't care about "Let them hear your message", "Show them the vision". I > was thinking, that it just a rabbish. It is not.". > > I would classify all questions like "Is Go OOP language?" in the category > "Let them hear your message". People like Rob Pike, Robert Griesemer and Ian > Lance Taylor probably don't need any labels like that, since, at the end of > the day, these labels answer very little important questions and they can > just go to the heart of the matter. But, let face it, very few people is on > thier level, especiall among newcommers. > > We know how much hot topic was "generics in Go" (one of the less know part of > the language in may case), when Robert Griesemer can just say in his talks > about adding them to Go "Generics are just glorified (type checked) macros" > (GopherCon 2020). For me it is one of the signs of how good people like > Griesemer are: for them the many hottest topics are just "no big deal". > > Previously, rightly, it was observed that 1990s OOP was a huge fad. > Unfortunetly, it is still big fad in many places. I'm from Poland, where the > most popular book, which I read myself as the beginner, in the last 30 years > on C++ is written with this OOP fad spirit. And from many reasons, people in > Poland in the age span 15-25 still today starts they programming journej with > this book. People raised in such enviroment, when comming to any other > language will be asking "Is it OOP?". Languages for which answer is "Yes" > will be classified as "cool" and these for which answer is "No" as "Uncool, > outdated and passe". Which is rabbish, but new people just don't know better. > > If this discussion about "Is X OOP language?" was just about which labels > applies where, I would probably shrug and go do more important things. But, I > consider it a case of "Let them hear you message" to use this slogan, and I > happy to spend some of my time expleining people who ask what I understand > about Go. For the same reason, I consider spending time in this thread, a > things that can lead to something valuable. > > Best regards, > Kamil > czwartek, 24 listopada 2022 o 11:40:45 UTC+1 Kamil Ziemian napisał(a): > " Let me ask, because I'm genuinely curious: Why does it matter? The labels > we apply to things do not affect their function. Perhaps it affects how we > think about them. Is that it?" > My point of view is that. In the moment when you learn the flow of language > X, it doesn't matter. But, it is not a thing that you get without some work > and many mistakes done along the way. > > Before that labels are important on at least two levels. > 1) As promotion/marketing tool. If someone think that OOP is cool, he would > here that language X is OOP he would think "O, new language doing OOP in new > cool way. Maybe I should learn it? You know, OOP is cool". > 2) As a guide for the people what to think and how to use about language X. > In the original post was already mention, that C++ and Java programers have > problem with writting good code in Go. My feeling is that, they try write > C++/Java code in Go, "they all OOP languages", which is missing the point. > > Hard truth is that for most people, me included, our ways of thinking (about > everything) and of coding ossified and stiffen after a time and we need to > put quite a work to make them fresh and flexible again. To use somewhat > radicolous example, if you put label "bike" on washing machine some people > will try to ride to work on it and they will complaine, that is not very good > bike. > > Best regards, > Kamil > czwartek, 24 listopada 2022 o 02:27:57 UTC+1 Rob 'Commander' Pike napisał(a): > Let me ask, because I'm genuinely curious: Why does it matter? The labels we > apply to things do not affect their function. Perhaps it affects how we think > about them. Is that it? > > -rob > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "golang-nuts" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to golang-nuts+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > <mailto:golang-nuts+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/golang-nuts/374bd837-f017-4325-b96a-6b0457a757a0n%40googlegroups.com > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/golang-nuts/374bd837-f017-4325-b96a-6b0457a757a0n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
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