Ok, I just can't help chiming in here. Given that a couple of snippets save the extra keystrokes and a smart folder saves the screen space, it's hard to see why this issue gets so much discussion. Cheers, Mike
*“I want you to act as if the house was on fire. Because it is.” — Greta Thunberg* On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 10:06 AM <golang-nuts@googlegroups.com> wrote: > golang-nuts@googlegroups.com > <https://groups.google.com/forum/?utm_source=digest&utm_medium=email#!forum/golang-nuts/topics> > Google > Groups > <https://groups.google.com/forum/?utm_source=digest&utm_medium=email/#!overview> > <https://groups.google.com/forum/?utm_source=digest&utm_medium=email/#!overview> > Topic digest > View all topics > <https://groups.google.com/forum/?utm_source=digest&utm_medium=email#!forum/golang-nuts/topics> > > - political fundraising on golang.org! > <#m_-1714232165778969862_group_thread_0> - 20 Updates > - go scheduler tracing <#m_-1714232165778969862_group_thread_1> - 1 > Update > - The next layer of abstraction for Go development? > <#m_-1714232165778969862_group_thread_2> - 3 Updates > - x, err = some_func(); if err != nil { } seems awkward > <#m_-1714232165778969862_group_thread_3> - 1 Update > > political fundraising on golang.org! > <http://groups.google.com/group/golang-nuts/t/6333782e4307b3b9?utm_source=digest&utm_medium=email> > Ian Lance Taylor <i...@golang.org>: Jun 14 04:30PM -0700 > > Let's please all remember to be respectful and charitable in this > discussion, per the gopher values in the code of conduct. Let's not let > this go off the rails. Thanks. > > Ian > Axel Wagner <axel.wagner...@googlemail.com>: Jun 15 02:14AM +0200 > > > > All I pointed out was that someone objecting to this may not be doing > > based on political party affiliations. > > No, what you said is, that objecting to the banner may not be *political*. > You didn't mention parties and neither did I. And I stand by my statement, > that objecting to the banner *is* inherently a political act. And that > claiming to object on the grounds that you don't want politics in the Go > project is thus paradoxical. > > Do you think all Democrats think alike on all issues? This is the problem > Jesse McNelis <jes...@jessta.id.au>: Jun 15 11:51AM +1000 > > On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 8:12 AM andrey mirtchovski <mirtchov...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > I have a non-profit I'd like to support. Who do I ask to put a banner > > on golang.org for me? > > > (reductio ad absurdum) > > This sounds like a great idea to me. It would probably need to be a > non-profit that furthers the Go language by expanding the reach and appeal > of the community to underrepresented groups. > Perhaps someone could put together a policy on what kind of non-profits > that would involve and this could be an ongoing thing. > Jon Reiter <jonrei...@gmail.com>: Jun 15 12:11PM +0800 > > Except now sharing links to golang.org, or showing those web pages at > events, could be argued as advocating for a foreign political cause. And > that's illegal in much of the world. Per google, google operates in 219 > countries. This could force community members to argue in any of at least > 219 legal systems this is apolitical under local law. Not the golang code > of conduct, local law. That is a decision that impacts the entire > community. > > On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 6:23 AM 'Dan Kortschak' via golang-nuts < > Axel Wagner <axel.wagner...@googlemail.com>: Jun 15 08:48AM +0200 > > I share link to golang.org all the time and I'd be willing to serve as a > testcase for this. Feel free to report my alleged crimes to the police. > Claiming that simply sharing a link to the Go page is "advocating for a > foreign political cause" is clearly a bad-faith argument, so if you live in > the kind of legal system where you aren't laughed out of the room by any > judge you try to make it to, I feel that the content of the Go project page > is the least of your worries. > > Also telling that you seem to explicitly call out the Go code of conduct as > not "impacting the entire community"? Surely I misunderstood that. Just > pointing that out to make clear that "it impacts the entire community" is > pretty much par for the course for things the Go team does. > > Marian Kopriva <mariankopr...@gmail.com>: Jun 14 11:52PM -0700 > > I agree with Peter's sentiment here. > > On Sunday, June 14, 2020 at 3:36:38 PM UTC+2, peterGo wrote: > Rusco <j.reb...@gmail.com>: Jun 15 02:16AM -0700 > > This is political hijacking of the Golang project, I am disgusted ! > > > > > > > > On Sunday, 14 June 2020 14:36:38 UTC+1, peterGo wrote: > Axel Wagner <axel.wagner...@googlemail.com>: Jun 15 11:23AM +0200 > > Can you be more specific about how this is a real issue? Like, do you have > precedent, where a banner-ad was the reason someone who linked to a page > for unrelated reasons was prosecuted? Would be interesting to have some > real cases so we get a clear picture of the threat here. > > Because to be clear, the reason I am trivializing this, is because I > believe it to be trivial. I can make up all kinds of laws and speculate > around how what you may say is violating them. But just because it's laws I > make wild claims about doesn't actually make the problems I talk about > real. > > "Eric S. Raymond" <e...@thyrsus.com>: Jun 15 05:55AM -0400 > > > What makes you think this is somehow politics and not simply supporting > > an important not-for-profit at a time when it's particularly relevant > > and important to do so? > > The ensuing dispute over its appropriateness is enough evidence that > it is political. > -- > <a href="http://www.catb.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond</a> > Axel Wagner <axel.wagner...@googlemail.com>: Jun 15 12:55PM +0200 > > > > It's not difficult to imagine banners like "free (some geographic place)" > > or "remember (someone or some date)" causing severe problems. > > It's also not difficult to imagine Orcs and wizarding schools and > intergalactic star flight. Doesn't make any of them real. > Are you aware of the optics of responding to a question about real > precedence with a different imagined problem? > > > > This banner differs only in degree of risk. > > Quantitative differences easily become qualitative ones. Being pricked by a > needle or getting knifed in the stomach only differ by degree of stabbing. > But if I told you that my doctor is trying to kill me, you'd rightly point > out that that's an imagined problem. > > > > It increases the risk of a problem by some non-0 amount. > > Assuming that was true, this non-0 amount would still needed to be weighed > against the benefits and in this case, the very real plight of people of > color across the world. Who are in very, painfully real danger to their > lives. > To make that tradeoff, at the very least, we'd need to know the actual > amount. But so far, the amount appears to be an actual zero. > > This isn't about agreeing or disagreeing with the sentiments. It's about > > not wanting to think about it when consulting technical documentation. > > It is, for some people. In fact, it seems to me the only "concern" that was > brought up by multiple people. Even if it might not be what this is about > for you, you should at least still be aware that you are supporting that as > well. > > As an aside it is not nice to be told my concerns are trivial. I'm > > concerned. I'm not the only person on this list that has expressed > > concerns. That should be enough for the issue to be taken seriously > > (regardless of outcome). > > I disagree with this logic. There are millions of anti-vaxxers or > flat-earthers. Doesn't mean their claims and concerns have any merit. > > > "Space A." <reexist...@gmail.com>: Jun 15 05:58AM -0700 > > Agree with Peter. It's not the right place and time and disrespectful for > the rest of the World. You don't even imagine what problems, social or > political, people who live far away from US face each and every day. > > > On Sunday, June 14, 2020 at 4:36:38 PM UTC+3, peterGo wrote: > K Davidson <kdev...@gmail.com>: Jun 15 06:18AM -0700 > > This mailing list is for the Go Programming Language, there are other > places on the internet to discuss unrelated topics. > > Please keep posts limited to things about go. > Axel Wagner <axel.wagner...@googlemail.com>: Jun 15 03:26PM +0200 > > > risk being deported: > > https://www.facebook.com/singaporepoliceforce/posts/10157358158324408 > > Is that concrete enough? > > No. The scenario you outlined was that you might link to golang.org or > show > it in a talk and have that be interpreted as political fundraising. The > post is specifically concerned with foreigners organizing public protests. > That's basically the polar opposite to "a page I linked to for unrelated > reasons also contained a banner-ad for a political non-profit". This is a > Ship > of Theseus <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ui-ArJRqEvU> argument. You"re > replacing "linking to a site containing a banner" with "political advocacy" > and that again with "organizing a public protest" and you are replacing > "there's a warning about doing X" with "doing X will cause you real and > immanent danger" and you're replacing "Fundraising for a social justice > movement" with "interfering in a foreign election". And you're pretending > that it's still the same argument. > > But it's not. What I'm skeptical on is the specific claim, that this banner > will land you, or anyone, in trouble when linking to golang.org. > > I would not want any banners that could appear to be political to appear on > > my screen while giving a public talk. > > Then don't show them. You can show screenshots and censor them, for > example. But "I don't want to show this piece of info" can hardly be > translated to "you shouldn't show it". > > I do not want any such banners anywhere near any documentation I might send > "Sam Whited" <s...@samwhited.com>: Jun 15 09:32AM -0400 > > Why is it disrespectful to the rest of the world? In what way does > supporting the Black Lives Matter movement and an important not-for- > profit diminish from other problems that also need solving? > > One of my neighbors recently put it this way: would you walk up to > someone at a breast cancer awareness march and ask "what's wrong with > you, don't you know that all cancers matter?!". Of course you wouldn't. > So ask yourself why people are so willing to do that with this issue in > particular. > > —Sam > > On Mon, Jun 15, 2020, at 08:58, Space A. wrote: > "Sam Whited" <s...@samwhited.com>: Jun 15 09:33AM -0400 > > This is an important issue about the Go Community and who feels welcomed > here, which is also covered by this mailing list. > > On Mon, Jun 15, 2020, at 09:18, K Davidson wrote: > Marvin Renich <m...@renich.org>: Jun 15 09:43AM -0400 > > > that objecting to the banner *is* inherently a political act. And that > > claiming to object on the grounds that you don't want politics in the Go > > project is thus paradoxical. > > My opinion, and the way I interpreted Peter's original post, is that > this banner is extremely inappropriate, independent of its social or > political views, because it is completely off-topic for the discussion > of the Go language and introduces a highly controversial non-technical > issue into places where people go to discuss a specific technical topic. > > I find it even more offensive that it is not just a banner promoting > awareness of a social issue, but contains a request and link soliciting > money. > > My alignment for or against any social issue has absolutely no bearing > on my opinion that this type of banner is inappropriate in this context. > I also believe that the people who run these websites have the right to > place banners of this nature if they wish, but they also have a > responsibility to _not_ do so. > > ...Marvin > "Sam Whited" <s...@samwhited.com>: Jun 15 09:47AM -0400 > > You're starting from the assumption that anything off-topic to the > language itself is bad. Why do you hold this position? > > Even if we accept your position that anything slightly off topic is bad > (although I do not accept that position), this topic is relevant to > everyone trying to build a more diverse and equitable community, and Go > is as much a community of people as it is a language. > > —Sam > > On Mon, Jun 15, 2020, at 09:43, Marvin Renich wrote: > "Space A." <reexist...@gmail.com>: Jun 15 06:48AM -0700 > > Because there are hundreds or thousands of initiatives to support > suffering > and dying people in African, Asian, Eastern European, and what else > countries that will never be supported by top banner at golang.org. > > On Monday, June 15, 2020 at 4:33:05 PM UTC+3, Sam Whited wrote: > Robert Engels <reng...@ix.netcom.com>: Jun 15 09:04AM -0500 > > I think a more specific point to be made is that it is a few select people > speaking for the community. In fact, the associating of BLM with the EJI is > suspect. Neither org associates with the other and their platforms are in > many ways Incompatible. > > As a 30+ year major inner city dweller I can testify the issues are > complex and nuanced, and people should be really hesitant when speaking for > others under the assumption they know what’s best for them. > > Marvin Renich <m...@renich.org>: Jun 15 10:05AM -0400 > > > This is an important issue about the Go Community and who feels welcomed > > here, which is also covered by this mailing list. > > This is _so_ wrong. The evidence that this banner has caused > substantial divisiveness and offended many members of the Go community > is obvious in this thread. > > In what way does not having the banner affect how welcome people feel on > the Go lists and websites? As long as the discussions on these lists > and websites remain technical, everyone should feel welcome. When you > start discussing unrelated social issues, you are certain to offend some > people. > > ...Marvin > Back to top <#m_-1714232165778969862_digest_top> > go scheduler tracing > <http://groups.google.com/group/golang-nuts/t/6b535c0ae6249c99?utm_source=digest&utm_medium=email> > envee <neeraj.vaidy...@gmail.com>: Jun 15 06:29AM -0700 > > I am running a program which reads multiple gzipped input files and > performs some processing on each line of the file. > It creates 8 goroutines (1 per input file which is to be processed. the > number of such files can be thought to remain 8 at the max). > Each of the go routines send to a buffered channel after finishing > processing of their respective file. > After creating the go routines, the program waits (using WaitGroup) for > all > go routines to finish and also drain the channel for all the values sent > by > the go routines. > > I have an 4 core CPU with 2 threads per core = 8 logical cores. > > But I set GOMAXPROCS=4 > > When I run the program with scheduler trace interval set to 1000ms, I can > see the following : > > SCHED 1001ms: gomaxprocs=4 idleprocs=0 threads=8 spinningthreads=0 > idlethreads=0 runqueue=0 [0 0 0 1] > SCHED 2008ms: gomaxprocs=4 idleprocs=0 threads=8 spinningthreads=0 > idlethreads=1 runqueue=0 [1 0 5 0] > SCHED 3015ms: gomaxprocs=4 idleprocs=0 threads=8 spinningthreads=0 > idlethreads=1 runqueue=1 [0 0 1 0] > SCHED 4022ms: gomaxprocs=4 idleprocs=0 threads=9 spinningthreads=0 > idlethreads=2 runqueue=0 [0 0 0 0] > SCHED 5029ms: gomaxprocs=4 idleprocs=0 threads=9 spinningthreads=0 > idlethreads=2 runqueue=1 [0 0 0 4] > > > If I create 8 go routines, shouldn't they all be distributed equally among > the 4 logical cores ? > > Why do some runqueues of the logical cores show values of 4 or 5 and some > have values of 0 ? > > I was hoping to see something like which I according to my understanding > means that all 4 processors have 1 go routine each waiting in the local > runqueue and at the same time has 1 go routine running on the assigned OS > Thread : > > SCHED 1001ms: gomaxprocs=4 idleprocs=0 threads=8 spinningthreads=0 > idlethreads=0 runqueue=0 [1 1 1 1] > > Thanks. > Back to top <#m_-1714232165778969862_digest_top> > The next layer of abstraction for Go development? > <http://groups.google.com/group/golang-nuts/t/96e914d338911b12?utm_source=digest&utm_medium=email> > David Skinner <skinner.da...@gmail.com>: Jun 14 05:37PM -0700 > > I am very very old, and very old school, so I always start with UMLs and > ERDs and design my apps long before I do any coding. These flowcharts are > visual representations that are concise and easy to understand and they > are > saved as XML which can be parsed by a Go program controlled by +generate > in > the docs.go file to boilerplate most of my code. Other Go programmers have > written parsers that convert Go programs to UML and ERDs. I am stressing > these concepts because they are useful abstractions that are quite common > and implementation is usually quite consistent. and I design my apps, not > at a computer, but rather at a Cajun restaurant using napkins while > discussing the issues with the stakeholders. We do have a default standard > project framework but it is mostly just empty directories to guide the > juniors into placing things in a consistent way. Most frameworks are very > opinionated, they may make life easier for a while, but first, you must > learn the framework and then you learn how to get around the limitations > of > the framework. With Go, I can roll my own and we can have something that > is > ideal for our clients, even if no one else wants to use it. > > On Saturday, June 13, 2020 at 3:11:59 PM UTC-5, Asim Aslam wrote: > Saied Seghatoleslami <seghatoleslam...@gmail.com>: Jun 14 08:12PM -0700 > > As evidence for not needing the next layer of abstraction, I offer Django > class-based-views. The go approach is much more understandable and easier > to follow. > > On Saturday, June 13, 2020 at 4:11:59 PM UTC-4, Asim Aslam wrote: > Anderson Queiroz <anderson.quei...@blacklane.com>: Jun 15 12:41AM -0700 > > My opinion is that one of the reasons other languages need a framework is > that the standard library is too hard to work with. So the frameworks take > some of these burden and also take a lot of decisions for the you. In Go > the standard library is powerful and simple enough to us to build the > abstractions we need on top of it. Of course nothing is perfect and we see > some big libs solving some problem such as routing, what is good, and we > use them. Also even with frameworks I see companied tend to create another > layer on top of them to enforce/facilitate their standards, the same > happens in Go, we end up creating libs which no framework will replace as > they are company specific. That's why we don't need a big framework for > Go, > if there was indeed this need we'd see some arising, but again, as the > standard lib is so good we don't need one. > Back to top <#m_-1714232165778969862_digest_top> > x, err = some_func(); if err != nil { } seems awkward > <http://groups.google.com/group/golang-nuts/t/5c593c8a303cb08b?utm_source=digest&utm_medium=email> > Randall O'Reilly <rcoreil...@gmail.com>: Jun 14 06:49PM -0700 > > I noticed a kind of circularity in the arguments around this issue. The > simple "inline the if block" issue was created and rejected earlier: > https://github.com/golang/go/issues/27135 -- in part because the central > issue of error handling logic was supposed to be resolved by some other > upcoming proposals. The newer issue: https://golang.org/issue/38151 has > some additional elements that potentially detract from the basic gofmt-only > version, and it has also been closed. There is also this closely related > proposal which has not yet been rejected: > https://github.com/golang/go/issues/37141 > > Overall there is certainly a consistent message from a substantial number > of people that just compressing that high-frequency `if err != nil` logic > down to 1 line *somehow* would solve most of the problem! But then there > are those who argue in favor of the status quo. > > Because consistency in formatting is an essential part of Go, it seems > that this is fundamentally an "aesthetic" decision that must either be made > by the core designers, or, perhaps, finding some way of performing a > large-scale democratic voting process that would reasonably enable a large > portion of the Go community to weigh in. It does seem that a lot of key > decisions are being made on the basis of a very small sample of emoji votes > in the issue tracker, so having a broader voting mechanism might be useful > for informing the decision making process.. Anyone know how to write a good > vote-collecting webserver in Go? :) > > - Randy > > Back to top <#m_-1714232165778969862_digest_top> > You received this digest because you're subscribed to updates for this > group. You can change your settings on the group membership page > <https://groups.google.com/forum/?utm_source=digest&utm_medium=email#!forum/golang-nuts/join> > . > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it send an > email to golang-nuts+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "golang-nuts" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to golang-nuts+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/golang-nuts/CAK6kDbY0HgdgTsV%2BQeuKQwHmuUPOj3iSxNEOxDC%3DPLqPtZu7jQ%40mail.gmail.com.
