Hi Simon, I appreciate that perspective.
I have considered only only assigning only top level types, because if someone is importing 25 or 30 accounts (INCOME/EXPENSES types should be much easier for most users), going through and editing them isn’t that difficult. But as I said earlier, the challenge of getting them right the first time is intriguing. :-) Tim > On Feb 20, 2023, at 21:52, Simon Roberts <si...@dancingcloudservices.com> > wrote: > > FWIW, I have taken the perspective that if I don't know what > category/account to put something in, I don't guess, I put it in > "Unbalanced" and then ask someone who knows. As I understand it, there > shouldn't be anything in that category, so it's a big red flag that you > can't miss that this thing needs attention. Then at suitable intervals, you > can ask your accountant, and learn. If you make a guess and get it wrong, > there's no obvious way, other than a really thoughtful audit, questioning > essentially everything, that will reliably catch all the erroneous guesses. > > Just my two cents, of course, since I'm not an accountant either > (presumably if I were, I'd not be suffering from these uncertainties!) > > >> On Mon, Feb 20, 2023 at 7:55 PM David Cousens <davidcousen...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >> Tim , >> >> In most cases if you get an account type wrong you can edit the account >> type and >> its parent account from the account tree structure. There may be some >> limitations associated with the type of the parent account which may have >> to be >> worked around. In the worst case scenario you can create an account of the >> correct type and then delete the account of the wrong type. If there are >> transactions to the account you are deleting the dialogue will ask which >> account >> you wish them transferred to and here you specify the new account of the >> correct >> type. Apart from the basic top level account types Asset, Liability, >> Equity, >> Income and Expenses there are a number of account sub-types which are >> usually >> tied to aspects of the business features, stock trading etc >> >> David Cousens >> >>> On Mon, 2023-02-20 at 19:25 -0600, m...@tgr66.me wrote: >>> Thanks Jim for the reply. >>> >>>> On Feb 20, 2023, at 15:49, Jim DeLaHunt <list+gnuc...@jdlh.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> It sounds like you are trying to answer two questions: >>>> >>>> 1. How do you extract meaning from account name strings in incoming >>>> migration data, such that you can pick the appropriate GnuCash account >> type? >>> >>> Ummm, sort of. Yes, I am asking myself that because I have to make >> decisions. >>> But I was really providing the scenarios to help shape the reader's >> thinking >>> about the implications. >>> >>> Yes, the question I’m asking is in the subject line. I should have >> included it >>> more in the body. I did ask specifically in the body though if there was >> "any >>> negative implications of assigning too general of an account type to an >>> account?” I’m inclined to err on the side of general and tell the user >> they >>> need to review all of them and edit appropriately based on GnuCash’s >>> documentation. But, it is still a good challenge to get them as close to >> right >>> as possible. >>> >>> The decisions I’m making are naturally heavily influenced by my personal >>> account and categories structure in Quicken along with my understanding >> about >>> how GnuCash structures accounts and defines types. There are undoubtedly >>> members of this mailing list who migrated data from some other app to >> GnuCash. >>> They made decisions about account types, perhaps after creating their >> chart of >>> accounts, and they may have found adjustments were necessary because >> something >>> didn’t work as expected. I believe hearing that would be helpful to me >> and >>> others. >>> >>>> >>>> 2. What are the GnuCash account types, and what are their meanings (or, >>>> purposes, or semantics)? >>>> >>>> I think question 1 is up to you. It is not a GnuCash question. >>>> >>>> The place to start for question 2 is the GnuCash /Help/ documentation, >> 5.1. >>>> *Types of GnuCash Accounts*[1]. You might find it helpful to consult >> the >>>> notes about what kinds of child account type each parent account type >>>> accepts. Missing from this page is the Trading Account type. >>>> >>> >>> I had read >>> >> https://code.gnucash.org/docs/MAINT/group__Account.html#ga398c5d6f7a5127db7b81789e05262908 >>> < >>> >> https://code.gnucash.org/docs/MAINT/group__Account.html#ga398c5d6f7a5127db7b81789e05262908 >>>> but will make sure to go back and read section 5.1. I appreciate that >> you’ve >>> highlighted that there can be child-parent mismatches as that is a real >>> implication. I realize that if a user migrating to GnuCash using the >> tool I’m >>> developing had a Credit Card under an Asset account, they could >> potentially >>> have a problem. I’m using PieCash for my GnuCash writes, and I *think* it >>> checks the parent-child rules, but I might want to test that. >>> >>> >>>> Trading accounts are described in the GnuCash /Tutorial and Concepts >> Guide/, >>>> 12.3. *Automatically Recording Currency Transactions using Trading >>>> Accounts*[2], and at wiki page *Trading Accounts*[3]. >>>> >>>> You might have to resort to reading the GnuCash code[4] to answer more >>>> detailed questions. I remember doing this once to clear up some of my >> own >>>> questions. >>>> >>>> Your subject: line asks, "what are the implications of getting [Account >>>> Types] wrong?" I don't see you asking that in your message body. But >> as far >>>> as I know, the implication can be unusability if you get the account >> type >>>> very wrong (e.g. an Asset type for what should be an Expense type >> account), >>>> or inconvenience if you get the account type a little wrong (e.g. no >> option >>>> to add an interest payment during the reconciliation process if you >> assign a >>>> Liability type for what should be a Credit type account). Note that >> users >>>> can, within limits, change account types for a book which is in use. >> That >>>> limits the negative implications of migration software making the wrong >>>> choice of account type. >>>> >>> >>> Great comments. Thank you. I did notice oddities yesterday when I >> created a >>> new book (GnuCash->File-New File) and created a full chart of accounts. >> In >>> particular, in Investments. Under Retirement, Bond accounts have a type >> of >>> Stock, so they have Shares/Buy/Sell, etc columns in the register. So >> those >>> look okay (other than calling a Bond a Stock type, which feels odd to >> me). But >>> as far as implications, I don’t see any issue. However, I realized this >>> partially answers the question about implications of opting general vice >>> specific. And this is reflected, I think, in GnuCash’s default account >>> structure and types. >>> >>> In the Bond, Market Index, Mutual Fund and Stock accounts under Brokerage >>> Account are all type Asset while the latter is Bank. So I’m guessing the >> logic >>> here is that *most* brokerage accounts have an associated sweep or bank >>> account. But, Brokerage Account is a Placeholder so I didn’t think >>> transactions would be recorded there. Admittedly, I may misunderstand so >> I’ll >>> need to experiment. I do see that Buy/Fee/Sell show up as Actions in one >> of >>> those registers. >>> >>> My app’s logic today would assign the type Stock to an account with the >> word >>> “brokerage” included. I’m now questioning this based on GnuCash’s default >>> setup. >>> >>> So specifically, why does GnuCash’s default chart of accounts have the >>> brokerage accounts as Assets while the retirement accounts are either >> Stock or >>> Mutual Fund? >>> >>> Thank you again. >>> >>> Tim >>> >>>> You are welcome to pose more specific questions to this list, if you >> like. >>>> >>>> And, while reading the documentation you may come up with suggestions >> for >>>> improved documentation wording. I encourage you to propose those as >> pull >>>> requests, or to the gnucash-dev mailing list. Part of what makes >> GnuCash so >>>> good is that many hands help to improve it. >>>> >>>> Best regards, >>>> —Jim DeLaHunt >>>> >>>> [1] <https://www.gnucash.org/viewdoc.phtml?rev=4&lang=C&doc=help>, >>>> temporarily hosted at >>>> <https://code.gnucash.org/website/viewdoc.phtml?rev=4&lang=C&doc=help> >> while >>>> www.gnucash.org's web server is offline. >>>> >>>> [2] >>>> < >> https://www.gnucash.org/docs/v4/C/gnucash-guide/currency_trading_accts.html >>>>> , temporarily >>>> < >> https://code.gnucash.org/website/docs/v4/C/gnucash-guide/currency_trading_a >>>> ccts.html> >>>> >>>> [3] <https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Trading_Accounts> >>>> >>>> [4] <https://github.com/GnuCash/gnucash> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> gnucash-user mailing list >>>> gnucash-user@gnucash.org >>>> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: >>>> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user >>>> ----- >>>> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. >>>> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. >>> >>>> On 2023-02-19 05:32, m...@tgr66.me wrote: >>>> >>>>> The approach I’m taking in a migration app I’m writing will be >>>>> conservative, erring on the side of more general vice more specific. >> For >>>>> example, ASSET, LIABILITY, INCOME, EXPENSE, EQUITY are pretty easy to >>>>> accurately apply based on account names (for example, “assets:current >>>>> assets:cash”). In an initial round of type assignments, this account >> would >>>>> get ASSET as its type. In a deeper subsequent look, it should be >>>>> reassigned with a type of CASH. >>>>> >>>>> INCOME, EXPENSE and EQUITY types don’t have sub-types I see, so >> those will >>>>> be even easier. I don’t foresee any issues with those. >>>>> >>>>> LIABILITY and CREDIT don’t appear too difficult as there just aren’t >> that >>>>> many options. First I’ll assign LIABILITY and if the words “credit >> card” >>>>> or “credit cards” exist in the rest of the account path, I’ll switch >> to >>>>> CREDIT, otherwise, leave it alone. >>>>> >>>>> Assets and Investments will be the trickiest. Let me start with >> Assets >>>>> first. >>>>> >>>>> Assume an imported account has the path and name of >> “assets:savings:family >>>>> savings”. Getting this typed as an ASSET is pretty straightforward. >>>>> Ideally, however, it would be typed as BANK. >>>>> >>>>> Or SHOULD it? Perhaps this family puts its savings in old coffee cans >>>>> under the back porch. So, I’d be inclined to leave this as ASSET. >> The user >>>>> can change it, but are there any negative implications of assigning >> too >>>>> general of an account type to an account? >>>>> >>>>> However, if the name has the word “account” in it, well, then I’d be >>>>> confident assigning a type of BANK. >>>>> >>>>> Investment accounts will be the trickiest I believe. Heck, I’m not >> sure I >>>>> understand the differences. >>>>> >>>>> When I create a new account in GnuCash, I’m surprised at some of the >>>>> assignments made when creating the hierarchy. For example, >>>>> “Assets:Investments:Brokerage Account” is a placeholder with type of >> BANK. >>>>> I would be inclined to assign any placeholder accounts a more generic >>>>> type. In this case, ASSET. Again, are there any negative >> implications of >>>>> me taking this approach? >>>>> >>>>> Regardless, I will direct the user to review all of them once >> created in >>>>> GnuCash to ensure they align with their exceptions, but are there >>>>> consequences if I get them wrong? >>>>> >>>>> And finally, TRADING. I don’t see any of those in the initial >> account list >>>>> created when I make a new file. So, for now, I’ll ignore this. Is >> that >>>>> okay? >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> gnucash-user mailing list >>> gnucash-user@gnucash.org >>> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: >>> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user >>> ----- >>> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. >>> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> gnucash-user mailing list >> gnucash-user@gnucash.org >> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: >> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user >> ----- >> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. >> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. >> > > > -- > Simon Roberts > (303) 249 3613 > _______________________________________________ > gnucash-user mailing list > gnucash-user@gnucash.org > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user > ----- > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. _______________________________________________ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user ----- Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. 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