The moment you split a large deposit between multiple sub-accounts you have fragmented the correspondence between the bank statement and your books. And, as you note, transferring funds between the sub-accounts introduces transactions that have nothing whatsoever to do with the account as the bank views it. These differences in semantics necessitate some juggling in order to reconcile the account. You may be able to handle this scheme given a low volume of deposits and withdrawals to a savings account, but someone trying the same concept for implementing an envelope budgeting scheme would have a real mess on their hands.
From: Robin Chattopadhyay <robinra...@gmail.com> Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2022 7:04 PM To: john.lay...@laymanandlayman.com Cc: Gnucash Users <gnucash-user@gnucash.org> Subject: Re: [GNC] Sub-Accounting (Was: Problem with missing balance in a parent account **FINAL POST**) I strongly -- but respectfully -- disagree. Gnucash works *brilliantly* for a sub-accounting use case with a single bank account at a financial institution comprised of multiple sub-accounts. For example, until my children were old enough/mature enough to have their own savings accounts at our bank, I held all of their individual savings, plus my own in a single account at the bank to take advantage of higher interest rates for higher balances. Like this: Savings Account 1234 (Placeholder because I didn't want transactions accidentally ending up here. Everything needs to be in a sub-account for my own piece of mind) --> Main Savings --> Child A Savings --> Child B Savings --> Child C Savings --> Vacation --> Capital Improvement --> etc. (other special purpose accounts) I can always immediately tell, within Gnucash, what is due each child or what their available balance is. When reconciling to the bank statement, I can select the representation of the bank account (Savings Account 1234), then click Actions -> Reconcile, enter the ending balance from the statement, click Include sub-accounts, and away I go. The reconcile window allows me to select any unreconciled transaction from any of the sub-accounts and reconcile back to the statement balance. Internal transfers between sub-accounts are not on the bank statement, obviously, but can also be reconciled in the Reconcile window as they will definitionally net to 0.00. I can also allocate interest amongst the various sub-accounts with a single credit to an Interest Income account and a debit to each sub-account. The only place where this system breaks down is importing an OFX file as the transaction importer doesn't understand matching transactions to sub accounts. For me, this is a small, small price to pay for all the other advantages I cited above. I also employ this system for credit cards where certain transactions are subject to a promotional interest rate, or I want to keep vacation transactions separate. A single payment to the credit card issuer can be allocated to each sub-account. Balances can be compared to the promotional balances on the statement. Robin On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 9:11 AM John Layman <john.lay...@laymanandlayman.com <mailto:john.lay...@laymanandlayman.com> > wrote: Reconcile appears in the menu, but it will not open a reconciliation of the subordinates, and (presumably) the placeholder account itself is empty. You can expand the subordinates, but will not be able to reconcile the expansion. What you are attempting to do is understandable, but difficult from a data modelling standpoint. The constituent parts of a data structure have semantics. In your particular case: that of a checking account. But you are attempting to superimpose a breakdown of its contents that represent different semantics. These semantics clash somewhat with the semantics of 'checking account' and the related function of reconciliation required with a bank statement. So, while what you are attempting to accomplish is understandable, the collision of semantics is difficult to harmonize. There was recent mention of envelope budgeting here. Trying to implement an envelope budgeting scheme by using sub-accounts to a single checking account might be doable, but it would be a kluge insofar as it would complicate reconciliation and wouldn't represent a generally suitable envelope budget feature. An envelope budgeting feature would necessarily span multiple financial accounts, potentially across multiple institutions, and require an entirely different view to be superimposed on the simple tree structure accounts in GnuCash represent. The tree structure is GnuCash is tremendously flexible, but doesn't provide for multiple views. -----Original Message----- From: gnucash-user <gnucash-user-bounces+john.layman=ieee....@gnucash.org <mailto:ieee....@gnucash.org> > On Behalf Of Robin Chattopadhyay Sent: Monday, October 10, 2022 5:05 PM To: Gnucash Users <gnucash-user@gnucash.org <mailto:gnucash-user@gnucash.org> > Subject: Re: [GNC] Problem with missing balance in a parent account **FINAL POST** At the risk of sounding defensive (I assure you I'm not, just confused) what is wrong with what I suggested (using the right-click/context menu on the placeholder account)? In the screen shot attached, you can see that the account I've selected is marked as placeholder and I can select the Reconcile option from that account. I'm using 4.12 on Ubuntu 22.04. Robin On Mon, Oct 10, 2022 at 8:21 AM john <jra...@ceridwen.us <mailto:jra...@ceridwen.us> > wrote: > Please remember to copy the list on all replies. > > If you want the Reconcile button (and, contrary to what Robin > Chatterjay wrote, Actions>Reconcile) to be active for your account, > make it not a placeholder. > > Regards, > John Ralls > > > > On Oct 10, 2022, at 7:56 AM, Jay Ridgley <jridgl...@austin.rr.com > > <mailto:jridgl...@austin.rr.com> > > wrote: > > > > Good morning, > > > > After some additional research I believe that the ONLY problem is > > the > grayed out reconcile button. > > > > I was confused about the balance showing in the Parent Account, > Placeholder. It shows in the Reconcile Popup window. > > > > The ACTUAL trouble is the grayed out Reconcile Button, that first > appeared for me in Ubuntu 22.04 LTS after the upgrade. > > > > Since I have found the workaround below, it is a matter of > inconvenience. However it would be preferable to have it as it was in > earlier releases (not grayed out). > > > > Regards > > Jay > > > > On 10/9/22 15:49, Jay Ridgley wrote: > >> Good afternoon, > >> Up until Ubuntu 22.04 The reconcile button was NOT grayed out for > >> the > type of account I am using (Parent account and Placeholder). I am > including an example of my account structure here: > >> Banking Account (Parent Account, Placeholder) > >> Checkbook (sub-account)(contains all checkbook transactions) > >> Reserve (sub-account) (contains minimum account balance) > >> Separate Purpose (sub account) (rental income & expenses) > >> Checkbook Blind (sub-account) (amount held as a pad) All > >> transactions take place in the sub-accounts. For me it has worked > successfully since I began using GnuCash (over 25 years ago). > >> I was advised of a workaround that allows me to continue using this > arrangement until it can be fixed/changed to act as it did previously. > >> It is as follows: > >> Open Parent account > >> right click and choose reconcile from the drop down Works just > >> fine. > >> Would not be necessary if the Reconcile button was not grayed out. > >> My question boils down too: Is this change a bug or a "feature" and > >> can > it be put back the way it was? > >> Please advise how I should proceed. > >> Thanks, > >> Jay > >> On 10/8/22 07:50, David T. wrote: > >>> That account register doesn't have any transactions in it, so it > >>> won't > have any value either. Is it possible that in the past, you used a > report to see the parent account balances, or even the Chart of Accounts? > >>> > >>> And if the account in the screen shot is a placeholder account, > >>> then > you a) wouldn't be able to open the account by double clicking, b) be > told on selecting Open that it was read only, and c) once opened, the > entire register would be greyed out. The screen shot seems to show a > normal account. It also shows a similarly-named tab next to the active tab. > >>> > >>> David T. > >>> On Oct 8, 2022, at 1:51 PM, Jay Ridgley <jridgl...@austin.rr.com > >>> <mailto:jridgl...@austin.rr.com> > <mailto:jridgl...@austin.rr.com <mailto:jridgl...@austin.rr.com> >> wrote: > >>> > >>> On 10/7/22 16:38, john wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> On Oct 7, 2022, at 12:43 PM, Jay Ridgley > >>> <jridgl...@austin.rr.com <mailto:jridgl...@austin.rr.com> > > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>> Good Morning, > >>> > >>> BRAND NEW to the list, have been using GnuCash on my Ubuntu > >>> system for over 20 years, this is the first problem I have > >>> encountered that I have not been able to resolve. > >>> > >>> I discovered that the balance amount that should > >>> appear in > a > >>> the parent account for my bank is missing. Therefore I am > >>> unable to do this month's reconcile. > >>> > >>> The account was proper last month, and I was able to > balance > >>> my checkbook successfully. In the meantime I upgraded to > >>> Ubuntu 22.04 LTS from 20.04 LTS every thing seems to > running > >>> properly, otherwise, including GnuCash. > >>> > >>> Today when I tried to reconcile my bank account I > discovered > >>> the amount of the balance is missing and the reconcile > >>> button is grayed out(naturally since nothing shows). > >>> > >>> All the sub accounts point to the parent account and when I > >>> list my accounts the balance appears there and is correct. > >>> > >>> What happened and how can I get it back? > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Can you attach (don't inline!) a screenshot of the problem? > It's > >>> not clear from your description what balance is missing > >>> and > what > >>> button is disabled. > >>> > >>> Regards, > >>> John Ralls > >>> > >>> John, > >>> > >>> Sorry it took so long... > >>> The account shown is the parent and the Balance should NOT be > blank, but > >>> the sum of 4 account balances. > >>> > >>> Thanks, > >>> Jay > >>> > > > > -- > > Jay Ridgley > > jridgley2 at austin.rr.com <http://austin.rr.com> > > Registered Linux User ID - 9115 > > https://linuxcounter.net/cert/9115.png > > Registered Ubuntu User ID - 23320 > > > > _______________________________________________ > gnucash-user mailing list > gnucash-user@gnucash.org <mailto:gnucash-user@gnucash.org> > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user > ----- > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. > _______________________________________________ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user ----- Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. 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