For completeness I should have mentioned that for accounts which have sub-accounts like those that envelope budgeters will probably have, the user should view the account in a 'with sub-accounts view' to see everything that is happening in the 'with sub-acconts' reconciliation window.
On Fri, Oct 15, 2021 at 12:57 AM David Carlson <david.carlson....@gmail.com> wrote: > No, Chris. In release 3.8 and earlier when the user first clicks on the > Reconcile icon and the pop-up appears to set the date, balance, etc., then > clicks OK, the Reconcile window opens with every transaction that is dated > before the reconciliation date and marked "c" in the Reconcile box is > automatically checked to be reconciled. Thus the user normally will only > need to check or uncheck any transactions that do not match the bank > statement. If the user was importing transactions so they were marked "c" > when they were imported or marking existing transactions "c" if they think > they saw them in their smartphone banking app, those transactions are > already applied to the target balance calculation and do not need to be > manually checked.for reconciliation. That is how it worked in release 3.8 > and earlier. > > There is another thread that apparently indicates that in the current > release if some transactions were manually marked as reconciled and the > user chooses Postpone, when he returns he will find his previous markings > lost. In release 3.8 those manually marked transactions will still be > marked when returning to the reconciliation. It appears that the code was > not reverted exactly to the way it was in release 3.8. > > On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 10:45 PM Chris Good <goodchri...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Hi David (Carlson), >> >> >> >> Not sure what you mean by “automatic marking that happens when the >> reconciliation process is initiated”? >> >> Perhaps you mean the marking of transactions as cleared when they are >> imported? >> >> >> >> Regards, >> >> Chris Good >> >> >> >> *From:* David Carlson <david.carlson....@gmail.com> >> *Sent:* Friday, 15 October 2021 3:00 AM >> *To:* Derek Atkins <de...@ihtfp.com> >> *Cc:* D. <sunfis...@yahoo.com>; Steve Welch via gnucash-user < >> gnucash-user@gnucash.org>; Chris Good <goodchri...@gmail.com> >> *Subject:* Re: [GNC] Reconciliation Changes >> >> >> >> I wonder if there is some confusion here between manually marking (or >> un-marking) account and sub-account transactions as reconciled (or not) vs >> the automatic marking that happens when the reconciliation process is >> initiated. The purpose of the pause before committing the reconciliation >> is to allow the user to uncheck the items that have not cleared to bring >> the cleared balance to match the outside bank statement or the user's >> desired result. I hope that GnuCash still pre-marks all un-reconciled >> account transactions (and sub-account transactions if they exist and the >> appropriate box is checked) dated before the reconciliation date when the >> reconciliation is started, as manually marking possibly hundreds of >> transactions at the beginning of the process would definitely be a pain. I >> do agree that each sub-account transaction line should be separately >> manually changeable. >> >> >> >> Because I am still running release 3.8 I cannot observe for myself how it >> works now, but release 3.8 does at least pre-mark all un-reconciled account >> transactions before the reconciliation date. I do not have sub-accounts in >> my data. >> >> >> >> On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 6:53 AM Derek Atkins <de...@ihtfp.com> wrote: >> >> Chris, Lisa, >> >> Yes, I agree with David here. It is absolutely quite common (and for >> DECADES has been the suggested way to do "envelope budgeting" in GnuCash) >> -- to have subaccounts of your Bank (or other Asset) account for your >> budget items. >> >> I realize that I did instigate your change in PR-713, however to reiterate >> my original message, "I do not agree with this change AND think it will >> introduce another bug" (emphasis added here). I still think the original >> change you made in PR-670 was wrong. But regardless, here we are now. >> >> In your particular case in bug #797648 I (still) don't understand why this >> is a single transaction. If you are using two payment methods to two >> expense accounts, that to me is two transactions. They could be processed >> at different times, post at different times, and they are absolutely for >> different items. I don't even know how you can place such an order (well, >> except, I guess, if you're at a restaurant and order separate checks -- >> but even in that case I don't see why you need to enter it as a single >> transaction). >> >> The use-case of envelope budgeting is definitely more common than your use >> case, so we should definitely support that. Perhaps I can propose some >> additional logic: >> >> If *ALL* the splits in a transaction are within the Reconciliation account >> (sub)tree, then when you click on one, it should be as if you click on all >> of them. That would help Lisa's use-case of moving money from one >> envelope into another, or from the main account into an envelope. >> >> However, this (new?) logic will not help in the case of a purchase where >> you're buying things from different envelope budgets in a single >> transaction (e.g. you're buying toothpaste and gas in the same >> transaction). I'm not sure how to get this and Chris' desire (and my >> desire) together, because I feel they are all mutually exclusive >> processes. >> >> I will just point out that in the reconcile window, all the splits of the >> same transaction will be next to each other, so if you're buying >> toothpaste and gas together, the splits for >> Assets:Bank:Checking:Toothpaste and Assets:Bank:Checking:Gas will be next >> to each other and should be easy enough to check manually (because they >> would both be credits in the same transaction). >> >> -derek >> >> On Thu, October 14, 2021 7:26 am, D. via gnucash-user wrote: >> > Chris, >> > >> > I believe she's implementing envelope budgeting >> > (https://www.thebalance.com/what-is-envelope-budgeting-1293682) using >> sub >> > accounts. A fair number of users of Gnucash do this, which has been >> > discussed on the lists over the years. >> > >> > David T. >> > >> > >> > -------- Original Message -------- >> > From: Chris Good <goodchri...@gmail.com> >> > Sent: Thu Oct 14 03:11:57 EDT 2021 >> > To: gnucash-user@gnucash.org >> > Subject: Re: [GNC] Reconciliation Changes >> > >> > Hi Lisa, >> > >> > This change was done under >> https://bugs.gnucash.org/show_bug.cgi?id=797648 >> > for reasons explained in the bug. >> > The first fix went live in 3.9 which forced all splits in a transaction >> to >> > the new selected reconciled state when one of them was changed, rather >> > than >> > just toggling the reconciliation status of all the splits for the >> account >> > being reconciled. >> > This was deemed incorrect, so a change was made in 3.11 where changing >> the >> > reconciliation status of a split in a transaction had no effect of other >> > splits in the transaction for the account being reconciled. >> > >> > I wouldn't recommend running an old version like 3.10. Never upgrading >> > until >> > you have to greatly increases your risk of falling foul of a security >> > issue >> > (or just a bug) that may have already been fixed. >> > >> > I don't upgrade immediately a new version is available, but I do after a >> > little while so it is likely that any major problems with a new release >> > will >> > have been found and probably fixed. >> > >> > It seems unusual to create different subaccounts in a bank account for >> > different types of expenses. >> > I believe it is more usual to split your income and expenses into >> > different >> > income and expense accounts, and do your budgeting based on the totals >> of >> > those accounts. >> > >> > Regards, >> > Chris Good >> > >> > Message: 6 >> > Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2021 20:31:44 -0700 >> > From: Lisa Reynoso <mrs.reyn...@gmail.com> >> > To: David Carlson <david.carlson....@gmail.com> >> > Cc: DaveC49 <davidcousen...@gmail.com>, Gnucash Users >> > <gnucash-user@gnucash.org> >> > Subject: Re: [GNC] Reconciliation Changes >> > Message-ID: <916d45e4-a319-4ab9-bfb9-fd7a6557f...@gmail.com> >> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 >> > >> > Well, my computer reformatted, so I had to start over. But in almost two >> > decades, I started over several times, and this last time is the only >> time >> > this problem occurred. I can?t imagine that had anything to do with it. >> > >> > I?m going to look at an old hard drive I saved from a couple computers >> > back >> > and see if I have an old installation file and see what it does if I do. >> > Or >> > what happens if I import old files from years back (if they are still >> > there). I?ll let you know how it goes. >> > >> > Lisa >> > >> > Sent from my iPhone >> > >> >> On Oct 12, 2021, at 5:35 PM, David Carlson < >> david.carlson....@gmail.com> >> > wrote: >> >> >> >> ? >> >> Sub accounts under the same bank account are not the same as transfer s >> >> to >> > outside accounts. >> >> >> >> If I recall correctly, they must be of the same type as the parent >> > account. I think that should still work as before in reconciliations. >> > Were >> > you able to import your table of accounts from an old file or did you >> > start >> > over, possibly different somehow this time? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> On Tue, Oct 12, 2021, 7:18 PM Lisa Reynoso <mrs.reyn...@gmail.com> >> >>> wrote: >> >>> Okay, first, I don?t know what version I had before. It was about 2 >> >>> years >> > ago that I downloaded it, and my hard drive was wiped, so I have no >> idea. >> >>> >> >>> Second, you completely misunderstood my problem. I understand the >> > reconciliation process intricately; I?ve been using it for a decade and >> a >> > half. I understand about clicking the ?include sub accounts? box; it?s >> the >> > sub account feature that turned me on to the program, since I was doing >> > that >> > on paper as my mother did; a computer was so much faster, since it did >> > most >> > of the math for me. I like math, but it gets tedious entering numbers >> in a >> > calculator. But I digress. >> >>> >> >>> There are two basic examples to illustrate. I have a checking account, >> > divided into various sub accounts, such as gas, groceries, clothing, >> > school >> > bill, etc. When I deposit a paycheck, I split the deposit into various >> > accounts. Likewise when i purchase both food and toothpaste at the >> grocery >> > store; toothpaste doesn?t come from the food budget. When I want to >> > reconcile the checking, I used to be able to check one of those splits >> and >> > have them all highlight. So if I checked the toothpaste transaction, the >> > grocery charge would check as well. Of course the expense account >> wouldn?t >> > reconcile; I wasn?t referring to that. >> >>> >> >>> But the other example is when I transfer money within the checking >> > account from one sub account to another. Like my original gas to >> groceries >> > (or vice versa) analogy. In that case, when I would check the credit, >> the >> > debit would check automatically as well, and the balance on the >> > reconciliation would not change, because no money actually entered or >> left >> > the checking. It was just moved around within it. Now I have to check >> one >> > and then scroll down to find the other. I make several dozen of these >> > transactions every month, and it is tedious to have to check them both. >> >>> >> >>> I downloaded version 4.4 when this problem first made itself felt. I >> > downloaded 3.11 today, and it still doesn?t do what it used to. I have >> > Windows 10; I don?t know if an earlier version will work or not. >> >>> >> >>> Lisa >> >>> >> >>> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> >> >>> > On Oct 12, 2021, at 2:09 PM, davidcousen...@gmail.com wrote: >> >>> > >> >>> > ?Lisa >> >>> > >> >>> > It may help if you can tell us what the previous version was and >> >>> > which version you have now upgraded to. >> >>> > >> >>> > On the reconciliation setup dialog under the Ending Balance entry >> >>> > there is a checkbox "Include subaccounts" which AFAIK by default is >> >>> > not checked. Try selecting that when starting the reconciliation >> >>> > and see if that restores some of the functionality you are used to. >> >>> > As far as I can tell once you have selected that option in the >> >>> > dialog for a given account it remains in force for subsequent >> >>> > reconciliations until you unselect it again but I am not completely >> > sure how sticky that option is and whether it does set a flag in the >> > account >> > structure. >> >>> > >> >>> > Any reconciliation process only acts on a single account and as >> >>> > such only marks the splits of a transaction into that that account. >> >>> > You do not reconcile a whole transaction unless you have >> >>> > individually reconciled all accounts that the transaction has >> >>> > splits to. Splits to an account which has not been reconciled will >> >>> > generally be marked with a "n" ( and maybe a "c" in some cases) and >> >>> > splits to a reconciled account with a "y". If a previous version of >> >>> > GNuCash did do this then that behaviour was incorrect. I have been >> >>> > using GnuCash for a similar period of time and I can't recall any >> > version in which a whole transaction not just the split was reconciled. >> >>> > >> >>> > David Cousens >> >>> > >> >>> >> On Tue, 2021-10-12 at 12:29 -0700, Lisa Reynoso wrote: >> >>> >> I've used GNU cash for years. Like, over 15 years. I used it >> >>> >> before I was married, so it's definitely been more than 15 years. >> >>> >> >> >>> >> Anyway, I never upgrade except when I get a new computer, and then >> >>> >> I install whatever is the latest, and transfer the files from the >> >>> >> old version (or in my most recent case, I just started over, >> >>> >> because the computer reformatted without my permission--yeah, that >> >>> >> was a nightmare!). When this latest install happened, something >> >>> >> had changed about how the reconciliation works. Always before when >> >>> >> I had a transfer from one subaccount within an account to another, >> >>> >> or if it was a split transaction, when I would check one box in >> >>> >> the reconciliation window, all boxes pertaining to that >> >>> >> transaction would check. For example, suppose I had extra gas >> >>> >> money at the end of the month, but had overspent my grocery fund. >> >>> >> I could transfer from the gas to the grocery subaccounts, and when >> >>> >> I reconciled, I could check one box and it would mark them on both >> >>> >> the credit and debit sides, without me having to hunt for the >> >>> >> opposite transaction. Likewise, when I deposit a check, I usually >> >>> >> divide it among various accounts, and all I had to do was click >> >>> >> one of the subaccount deposits, and all the other deposits from >> >>> >> the same check would be marked as well. Now, that's not the case. >> >>> >> And I can't find an old enough version for Windows 10 that does >> >>> >> that anymore. Anyone have any ideas? It now takes almost twice as >> >>> long >> > for me to reconcile, since I have a lot of subaccounts and do a lot of >> > internal transferring within my checking account that doesn't show up on >> > my >> > bank statement. >> >>> >> Having to look for the parallel transactions or figuring out which >> >>> >> split transactions go together takes more time. I'm almost ready >> >>> >> to try to find some other software, but I've used this for so long >> >>> >> I really don't want to switch. >> >>> >> >> >>> >> Lisa >> >>> >> >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > gnucash-user mailing list >> > gnucash-user@gnucash.org >> > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: >> > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user >> > If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see >> > https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. >> > ----- >> > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. >> > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. >> > _______________________________________________ >> > gnucash-user mailing list >> > gnucash-user@gnucash.org >> > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: >> > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user >> > If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see >> > https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. >> > ----- >> > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. >> > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. >> > >> >> >> -- >> Derek Atkins 617-623-3745 >> de...@ihtfp.com www.ihtfp.com >> Computer and Internet Security Consultant >> >> _______________________________________________ >> gnucash-user mailing list >> gnucash-user@gnucash.org >> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: >> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user >> If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see >> https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. >> ----- >> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. >> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. >> >> >> >> -- >> >> David Carlson >> > > > -- > David Carlson > -- David Carlson _______________________________________________ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. ----- Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. 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