> On Nov 19, 2018, at 2:09 AM, Christian Kluge <frakturfr...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Am 18.11.2018 um 17:50 schrieb David T. via gnucash-user: >> Hello, >> >> I am a longtime user (GC3.3, Mac OSX) trying to do something new in GnuCash, >> and I ran into a situation that I found rather confusing, and I’d like to >> share that with the group to see whether I have understood the situation >> correctly. >> >> Basically, I am transferring funds from a US dollar account to an Indian >> Rupee account. I have the USD account already, and created the INR account >> as an asset account: Assets:Current Assets:Checking Accounts:INR Checking. >> The account is denominated in INR, while the parent accounts are USD. I >> created the opening balance transaction using funds from my USD-denominated >> cash account. After tinkering around with the exchange rate dialog (God, the >> terminology used there is not understandable!), I got the numbers to be sane >> and based on the actual amounts involved. >> >> Then, I attempted to document a subsequent transfer I initiated using Xoom, >> and this is where things get messy. Xoom is an online funds transfer service >> that allows me to transfer this money to this INR account for a small fee. >> >> So, I opened the INR account and created the transfer for the base amount, >> and got a second sensible multicurrency transaction (again, after some >> tinkering. Did I mention that the terminology used in the dialog is >> confusing?). >> >> Then I remembered that Xoom charged me another $4.99, and I went to the Cash >> account and opened up the transaction in split mode. There, I changed the >> total amount charged to my origination account to $504.99, fully expecting >> to assign the extra $4.99 to Expenses:Bank Fees. Imagine my surprise when I >> received the Exchange Rate dialog again, which GnuCash would not let me >> dismiss. I could only adjust the numbers, and everything I did messed things >> up further. >> >> Knowing that many others are using GC for just this sort of use case, I >> deleted the transaction, and then read a bit in the Guide, but didn’t find >> anything to explain the odd situation I found myself in. I *did* notice that >> the example in the Guide started in the originating account and added splits >> as: Total Cost, Fee Charged, Net Transferred. When I tried THAT sequence, it >> all worked out. >> >> Here's, my question: Is this the *only* sequence a user should follow? It >> seems rather limiting for GC not to allow a user to add a new split to a >> multicurrency transaction, but I am unable to see any way to subsequently >> add a fee*. It’s not a big deal, but we should perhaps make it clear to >> users that they must follow this split sequence to enter such transactions. >> >> It occurs to me that part of the problem likely has to do with where the >> tranasction was originally entered. I entered this transaction in the INR >> account, and then attempted to change the USD figure from the USD account. >> Maybe this is why the exchange rate dialog triggers when I try to change >> that split. I surmise this because in further tests, I note that I could >> change the INR split without trouble. I would assume that the dialog would >> trigger based on the account in which the tranaction was edited (rather than >> whether the split is considered the “foreign” currency split), but that >> seems to be wrong. >> >> David >> >> * - I recognize that I could roll the fee into the exchange rate itself >> (similar to how some recommend rolling investment fees into the stock share >> prices), but I am glutton for punishment, and I like to see how much it is >> costing me to shift money around. > > What’s so confusing about the currency exchange rate window? I > understand it perfectly fine.
I’m sure you don’t intend for your comment to be dismissive, but it really comes across that way. For what it’s worth, I specifically find the Exchange rate portion extremely counterintuitive; most rates I see are described using whole number (or close to whole number) ratios—such as 72.1 Rupees per Dollar, or 8271 Soum to 1 dollar. Entering “.013963” is not particularly clear (I *could* always go and Google what 1/72.1 is, but that sort of removes the ease factor). And, while it may be a function of my feeble mind, “72.1 Rupees to the Dollar” sounds to me like “72.1:1”—which you really shouldn’t put into that box, unless you want to see sheer lunacy. (Really—I don’t know how the result occurs or what mathematical function is triggered) Neither is it clear from the prompt (“Currency Transfer/Exchange Rate” and “1 INR = 0.013963 USD”) that a user can enter any sort of calculation in this box to arrive at the correct number. One could put “1/72.1” and get a reasonable exhange rate. Note that I say “reasonable,” for reasons noted below. I will state that the dialog lists the operands in *opposite* order to how the user should enter them in the box; the “denominator” currency is listed first, and the “numerator” currency is listed second, which contributes to my confusion. Now, it would in fact be preferable to enter the exchange rate as the ratio of the two sides of the transaction (500 USD divided by 35513 INR), since this will result in a more accurate reflection of the real world transaction you got. Indeed, this is rather what the second option seems focused on. > > But yes, I’ve also noticed that the dialog is triggered depending on > were the transaction was entered. Another confusing aspect of multi-currency transactions: a dialog that triggers at some times but not others. > > When following the sequence described, you can always change the amounts > and add fees. Yes, that was what I found as well. My question was specifically whether this is the ONLY way it can work. If so, that limitation should probably be documented. > > I don’t if has something to with the usage of trading accounts. I don’t either—as I am not using Trading Accounts. > > But I could add a fee in this scenario just fine. > Standard account currency EUR, foreign currency USD, exchanging EUR to USD. > > Starting with a blank transaction in the EUR account, I selected the USD I’ll repeat: the scenario I described started in the *foreign* currency account; everything below is not germane to the situation as I described it. Ultimately, it seems to me that allowing a user to enter an exchange rate—like allowing a user to enter a commodity price, or to calculate an amount of interest on a loan payment—is counter productive in GnuCash. It is practically guaranteed that any transaction that uses such a value is not going to match the transaction as it is ultimately recorded officially. Implying that such will happen is folly—as can be seen in list threads throughout the GnuCash archives. The miniscule variations that result from the calculation of the distant amount from the local amount and the exchange rate quickly add up to books that don’t balance. So maybe the real answer is to remove this option from the program; I mean, why lead a person into entering inaccurate transactions? Having used the feature for a few more transactions, I am able to get satisfactory results. That doesn’t mean the dialog is easy to understand. "Easy to understand" means that the user doesn’t have to enter multiple values into the box to identify its functionality (as I have now done). Sincerely, David > account and entered the amount in USD, got prompted for the exchange > rate and remembered the converted EUR amount and completed the > transaction with this amount and the EUR account and left the transaction. > > Afterwards I changed the amount for the EUR account and could just > assign the new remaining amount to an EUR exchange rate expenses > account. What would be your use case. > > You could also write the final EUR amount first and change the imbalance > EUR account to the right one afterwards. > > Kind regards > > Christian Kluge > > _______________________________________________ > gnucash-user mailing list > gnucash-user@gnucash.org > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user > If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see > https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. > ----- > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. _______________________________________________ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. ----- Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. 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