Roger that. Curious though if this issue should be addressed in documentation, or bugzilla. It’s probably a bug if the format can’t make use of them. They likely should not be generated at all.
Regards, Adrien > On Aug 15, 2018, at 7:22 PM, David T. <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >> On Aug 15, 2018, at 1:35 PM, Adrien Monteleone >> <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Looks pretty clear. >> >> Though I’m noticing sqlite does generate log files too. Note, these are >> transaction replay logs from what I understand in case of a crash. As I >> believe John Ralls noted, any of these past the last successful save are >> useless. I’m not sure if this is what you are referring to by ‘Uses log >> files.’ I don’t know if sqlite can even utilize them at all. I’ve never had >> to try. You might want to get clarification on that point. > > I am no expert at the SQL back ends, but I was given to understand that the > log files are generated regardless of the back end being used—but that for > the SQL back ends, they aren’t useful, since changes are written to the file > immediately. > >> >> Also, I’d get clarification about the state of GnuCash sqlite on Windows. It >> may or may not be packaged with GnuCash by default and may or may not need >> some additional software. (if so, you might need a footnote) On Mac & Linux, >> it’s just a file format choice without any other effort. >> >> Regards, >> Adrien >> >>> On Aug 15, 2018, at 12:49 PM, David T. <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> Here is a newer version of the table: >>> >>> Storage Comparison Table >>> XML SQLite MySQL PostgreSQL >>> Installation Default Default libdbi libdbi >>> File extension gnucash gnucash N/A N/A >>> Additional software None None MySQL PostgreSQL >>> Additional expertise None None DBMS DBMS >>> Compression Y N N N >>> Save on command Y N N N >>> Save on commit N Y Y Y >>> Uses log files Y N N N >>> Multi-user N N N N >>> >>> How does that seem? >>> >>>> On Aug 15, 2018, at 10:34 AM, Adrien Monteleone >>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Aug 15, 2018, at 12:11 PM, David T. <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On Aug 15, 2018, at 10:02 AM, Adrien Monteleone >>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> But it’s not a ‘plain file’ as it is XML formatted. Someone expecting >>>>>> plain text and trying to view it is going to be met with tag soup >>>>>> they’ve never seen before and might very well not know how to read it. >>>>> >>>>> Not to mention that it’s compressed. >>>> >>>> True, forgot about that. Certainly, they’ll see gibberish mostly. >>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> It also carries an .xml extension. So specifying the format is very >>>>>> specific and informative, even for users who aren’t familiar with XML. >>>>>> They’ll see in their file manager the extension, and/or the OS’s >>>>>> interpretation of the file type itself. (in this case both XML) >>>>> >>>>> However, the file extension used is “gnucash” and not “xml” >>>> >>>> Facepalm. I forgot about that. (I honestly rarely even look at the >>>> location where it’s stored anyway) I’d suspect unless Win10 uses the file >>>> descriptor for file type instead of the extension as was the practice >>>> through at least Win7, then no, those users won’t see XML anywhere. (if >>>> the descriptor is set as XML that is) >>>> >>>> So I just checked on both MacOS and Ubuntu, MacOS reports the ‘Kind’ as >>>> ‘Gnucash Document’ regardless if sqlite or xml, and at least with xml, >>>> Ubuntu reports the file type as ’spreadsheet’. (yes, it’s registered to >>>> open with GnuCash, but this was built from source, so perhaps the file >>>> type was not registered properly, repo versions may vary) >>>> >>>> So I guess on that point I was way off. >>>> >>>> >>>>> Perhaps the save process needs to be refactored to identify clearly and >>>>> separately the name of the data file AND its format? >>>> >>>> Since .gnucash is not really proprietary or somehow a special format from >>>> XML then I agree, the extension should be .xml. >>>> >>>> Combine this with the fact that the sqlite version of the file ALSO uses >>>> the .gnucash extension can make for some confusion. At a glance, you can’t >>>> tell what the format is. You can’t even tell until you try to open it with >>>> something other than GnuCash. (or you notice that GnuCash doesn’t offer a >>>> Save option) The only reason I know which is which is I had to use >>>> filename.xml.gnucash to tell them apart. That’s a usability bug in my >>>> opinion. I don’t know how hard that is to change, but I’d support the move. >>>> >>>> On that note, the documentation somewhere (I suppose in the ‘file > >>>> save/save as’ section) should document that the extension is currently >>>> ‘.gnucash’. A new user shouldn’t have to go to a wiki or website FAQ after >>>> reading the documentation for something this basic. >>>> >>>> Would it be out of order to include in your table that both use this >>>> extension? If you expand the table to show MySQL and Postgres, I suppose >>>> that row would have some other note since their data stores are very >>>> different than single files. (though in this case they might store it that >>>> way, I haven’t used either to know) >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> Adrien >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Knowing this might very well help them find their file if they know the >>>>>> format they are looking for. >>>>>> >>>>>> But I do agree, the documentation should cover where files are stored. >>>>>> Ideally, this should be made part of the Help or Guide in the Getting >>>>>> Started section. It is certainly a common enough issue on the list. >>>>>> >>>>>> Regards, >>>>>> Adrien >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Aug 15, 2018, at 10:24 AM, Christoph R >>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi David, >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The default file storage format is XML >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I would not call this “XML" but "plain file”. From a user perspective >>>>>>> it is not important in which internal format it is stored. But it makes >>>>>>> a big difference if it is a simple file created by Gnucash or if >>>>>>> Gnucash needs to connect to a DBMS. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> And one of the biggest confusion for users on the mailing list is the >>>>>>> question: “Where is my data?”. Pointing out that all your accounts and >>>>>>> transactions are in a simple file might reduce that problem. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>> Christoph >>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> gnucash-user mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: >>>> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user >>>> If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see >>>> https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. >>>> ----- >>>> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. >>>> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> gnucash-user mailing list >> [email protected] >> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: >> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user >> If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see >> https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. >> ----- >> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. >> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. _______________________________________________ gnucash-user mailing list [email protected] To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. ----- Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. 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