/Library *is* meant as a system-wide (OS-level) storage location; Mac software seem to like sprinkling these settings in the various locations, regardless of rights.
Finder is one of those major oddities, I believe; searches there are often incomplete. > On Sep 13, 2018, at 12:02 PM, Adrien Monteleone > <adrien.montele...@lusfiber.net> wrote: > > I would think the file would be generated for each user on first run, but > John will have to chime in for the definitive answer. > > The main /Library/Preferences I think is ’supposed’ to be for the OS so I > wouldn’t expect to see it there. Though I see on mine I also have an entry > for my Brother printer and Fusion. > > What does a Finder search of “This Mac” show for org.gnucash.Gnucash.plist? > Does it only exist for your original user? > > I just did such a search, and Finder can’t find it. Even though I can > navigate to it. A search for “.plist” does return ’some’ preference files, > but oddly not all of them, and not Gnucash. (I also have one for Scribus it > couldn’t find) > > Regards, > Adrien > >> On Sep 13, 2018, at 10:41 AM, David T. <sunfis...@yahoo.com> wrote: >> >> Odd. How would GnuCash access that on a different user login? >> >> Just for completeness, I checked in /Library/Preferences as well, but did >> not find org.gnucash.Gnucash.plist there. >> >> David >> >>> On Sep 13, 2018, at 11:23 AM, Adrien Monteleone >>> <adrien.montele...@lusfiber.net> wrote: >>> >>> /Users/you/Library/Preferences/org.gnucash.Gnucash.plist >>> >>> Regards, >>> Adrien >>> >>>> On Sep 13, 2018, at 10:17 AM, David T. <sunfis...@yahoo.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> John, >>>> >>>> Thanks for the detailed information; out of curiosity, where on a typical >>>> Mac filesystem will this setting be stored? >>>> >>>> David >>>> >>>>> On Sep 13, 2018, at 10:36 AM, John Ralls <jra...@ceridwen.us> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Adrien, >>>>> >>>>> The new user dialog opens if there’s no file to open and a preference >>>>> hasn’t been set; running the dialog sets the preference. It offers to run >>>>> the NAHSA, the QIF import assistant, or to run a new user tutorial (which >>>>> actually just opens the T&CG at the table of contents). >>>>> >>>>> To see it on your mac, do >>>>> defaults write org.gnucash.Gnucash >>>>> /org/gnucash/dialogs/new-user/first-startup "1" >>>>> /Applications/Gnucash.app/Contents/MacOS/Gnucash --nofile >>>>> >>>>> You might try starting GnuCash with --nofile on your new VM to see if >>>>> that triggers it. If so it means that for some reason >>>>> gnc_get_file_to_load() is returning something besides NULL. >>>>> >>>>> It’s currently not possible to have GnuCash running without an open >>>>> session and accompanying book, even if the book doesn’t even have a root >>>>> account. That leads to having the “save” button lighted and being asked >>>>> to save when there’s nothing to save. >>>>> >>>>> Regards, >>>>> John Ralls >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On Sep 13, 2018, at 7:09 AM, Adrien Monteleone >>>>>> <adrien.montele...@lusfiber.net> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Just tested in a Xubuntu 18.04 vm. >>>>>> >>>>>> I got the tip of the day overlaid on the splash screen. I closed the tip >>>>>> dialog, the splash screen disappeared and the main GnuCash window >>>>>> appeared. >>>>>> >>>>>> It’s blank save for the menu and two buttons, one to save the current >>>>>> file and one to close the currently active page. (whatever that means) >>>>>> >>>>>> Here’s a screenshot: https://imgur.com/a/HIitCFN >>>>>> >>>>>> I didn’t think an actual book exists here, but the title bar does say >>>>>> ‘unsaved book’ at the top. >>>>>> >>>>>> Clicking the “Close the currently active page” button does nothing. >>>>>> (perhaps because there is no currently active page) >>>>>> >>>>>> Clicking the “Save File” button brings up a save file dialog. Completing >>>>>> this saves the file, changes the title bar to now say, in this case, >>>>>> ’test.gnucash - Gnucash’ but otherwise does nothing. The NAHSA doesn’t >>>>>> run. There’s zero indication what the user is supposed to do at this >>>>>> point. >>>>>> >>>>>> So if there is supposed to be a ‘Welcome’ screen to guide the user on >>>>>> getting started, it isn’t firing. Is this new for 3.x? >>>>>> >>>>>> Note, this test was done using 2.6.19-1 which was in the bionic repos so >>>>>> I’m not going to file a bug on this, but I’ll next build a fresh copy of >>>>>> 3.2 and see what happens. >>>>>> >>>>>> Regards, >>>>>> Adrien >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sep 13, 2018, at 8:36 AM, Adrien Monteleone >>>>>>> <adrien.montele...@lusfiber.net> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> There’s a “Welcome to GnuCash!” screen? I don’t think I’ve ever seen >>>>>>> it. I’m going to test in a vm and see what happens. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>> Adrien >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Sep 13, 2018, at 8:33 AM, David T. <sunfis...@yahoo.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Adrien, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I just tried using a new login on my Mac to run a newly-downloaded >>>>>>>> copy of GnuCash, and I also found myself staring at a blank screen >>>>>>>> after startup. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Having just worked on the documentation for the “Welcome to GnuCash!” >>>>>>>> screen, I am curious to know *when* that screen actually runs? Does >>>>>>>> GnuCash have some hidden element that knows that it has been run on >>>>>>>> any login of my Mac, or is this aspect broken? Seems a shame to have a >>>>>>>> welcome mat at the front door, and then have everyone use the service >>>>>>>> entrance. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> David >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Sep 13, 2018, at 8:53 AM, Adrien Monteleone >>>>>>>>> <adrien.montele...@lusfiber.net> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I was going to mention this in my reply to David Cousens but didn’t >>>>>>>>> want to hijack the thread. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The greatest source of confusion I’ve seen from new users personally >>>>>>>>> is the blank screen you see on first run with no indication what to >>>>>>>>> do next. (unless this has changed with 3.x, I haven’t started a >>>>>>>>> ‘fresh’ copy of GnuCash in some time) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Perhaps if this screen offered buttons for “Open existing book” or >>>>>>>>> “Create new book” that then launches the appropriate assistant(s) >>>>>>>>> could work well here. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Does this fall in line with what you mentioned about ‘first screen’ >>>>>>>>> or was that the ‘first screen of the assistant’? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>> Adrien >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Sep 13, 2018, at 7:41 AM, D <sunfis...@yahoo.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hello, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Having raised yet another ruckus on the lists regarding >>>>>>>>>> documentation, I will back off altogether, and work to write >>>>>>>>>> documentation on the assistant as it is, taking care to balance the >>>>>>>>>> needs of the different user groups. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> My only final comment is to note that it is unfortunate that this >>>>>>>>>> assistant is what all users see when they click File->New. Perhaps >>>>>>>>>> the idea of adding buttons on the first screen for Business and >>>>>>>>>> Personal setup (along with a modification in sequencing for the >>>>>>>>>> latter option) could be implemented with minor developer effort? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I have a greater appreciation for the many different perspectives in >>>>>>>>>> the community, and thank everyone for their input. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> David >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On September 13, 2018, at 8:10 AM, Adrien Monteleone >>>>>>>>>> <adrien.montele...@lusfiber.net> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> David, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I agree on all points. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>>> Adrien >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 12, 2018, at 10:19 PM, David Cousens >>>>>>>>>>> <davidcous...@bigpond.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Adrien, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> While I agree with the concept David T is proposing to streamline >>>>>>>>>>> the process for new users and the thrust of your >>>>>>>>>>> comments about the new user experience, the new account heirarchy >>>>>>>>>>> at least as it is currently implemented, will be used >>>>>>>>>>> by anyone creating a new set of books, whether they are experienced >>>>>>>>>>> Gnucash users, experienced accountants, total >>>>>>>>>>> newbies or someone transferring from another program. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> As a newbie you can get a perfectly usable set of accounts for >>>>>>>>>>> exploring Gnucash by simply clicking Next through the >>>>>>>>>>> assistant then Apply and then saving the file. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Perhaps this needs to be made clearer to new users as well as >>>>>>>>>>> informing them that any choices they make can be changed >>>>>>>>>>> later (except for the very few cases where this is not possible - I >>>>>>>>>>> can't think of any but I personally don't currently >>>>>>>>>>> use the full capabilty set of GnuCash's features but I used more in >>>>>>>>>>> the past). >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> If this was done up front, they could then easily skip through. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> The suggestion John made of creating a simplified new file option >>>>>>>>>>> with defaults based on the locale and an advanced >>>>>>>>>>> setup option using the NAHS Assistant seems to meet this need as >>>>>>>>>>> well. Even knowing what you want in a CoA requires a >>>>>>>>>>> fair understanding of your accounting needs as well as the >>>>>>>>>>> functionality of GnuCash. Alternatively in other posts I >>>>>>>>>>> think both Frank and I have suggested a checkbox which by default >>>>>>>>>>> disables selecting those options which a new user is >>>>>>>>>>> going to find confusing and provides default values. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I would have thought the CoA setup is not too bad. It comes with >>>>>>>>>>> the common accounts selected, it does perhaps give the >>>>>>>>>>> new user a view that there is a lot more to explore. Some new users >>>>>>>>>>> will be looking for business functionality and other >>>>>>>>>>> "advanced " functionality from the get go. There will always be a >>>>>>>>>>> few new users who will be confused by having to start >>>>>>>>>>> the program. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Personally when evaluating software, I jump in without reading >>>>>>>>>>> manuals first because I figure if the interface isn't >>>>>>>>>>> intuitive to a decent extent, I am not going to want to go too much >>>>>>>>>>> further, unless I really have no other option. >>>>>>>>>>> Intuitive for an experienced computer user can however be very >>>>>>>>>>> different for someone with limited experience. My wife >>>>>>>>>>> never reads manuals ever, she just asks me. I on the other hand >>>>>>>>>>> consult my 5 year old grand daughter. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I share Mechtilde's concern that in making things easier for the >>>>>>>>>>> new user we don't lose functionality for the >>>>>>>>>>> experienced user. We should hopefully look for mechanisms for doing >>>>>>>>>>> both. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> David Cousens >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 2018-09-12 at 10:33 -0500, Adrien Monteleone wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> As someone who has helped other people get started using GnuCash >>>>>>>>>>>> (and remembering my own first steps) I agree >>>>>>>>>>>> completely with these points. Those book preferences are not self >>>>>>>>>>>> explanatory. (perhaps bugs in their own right) A new >>>>>>>>>>>> user is left to either trust the defaults and move on, pause and >>>>>>>>>>>> revisit the startup process several times while they >>>>>>>>>>>> track down help info and digest it, or give up in frustration. >>>>>>>>>>>> (I’ve seen the latter three times—you may or not be >>>>>>>>>>>> surprised how many people do *not* want to read a book before they >>>>>>>>>>>> start using a piece of software, I chose the second >>>>>>>>>>>> option personally) >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Unless the startup assistant (wizard, druid, whatever) can be >>>>>>>>>>>> redesigned as an explanatory walk through to choose >>>>>>>>>>>> these settings, that part should be removed and the defaults >>>>>>>>>>>> chosen for the user. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> As for trading accounts, I turned them on after the fact for >>>>>>>>>>>> tracking commodities as additional currencies. I’ve never >>>>>>>>>>>> bought or sold any since doing that, but I’ve played with turning >>>>>>>>>>>> the setting on and off to experiment with the >>>>>>>>>>>> setting’s effect on some reports and I’ve never noticed any >>>>>>>>>>>> issues. (but again, I only have opening balance >>>>>>>>>>>> transactions in each currency) If turning Trading Accounts off >>>>>>>>>>>> after entering buy/sell transactions is bad news, then >>>>>>>>>>>> I would think the option to do so should be disabled. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>>>>> Adrien >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 12, 2018, at 9:38 AM, David T. via gnucash-devel >>>>>>>>>>>>> <gnucash-devel@gnucash.org> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello, >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> As I begin the process of migrating text from the Help to the >>>>>>>>>>>>> Guide (cf. Bug 796855), I am working on the Help >>>>>>>>>>>>> information regarding the New Account Hierarchy Setup (NAHS) >>>>>>>>>>>>> assistant, and I have a couple of questions about the >>>>>>>>>>>>> second screen of the assistant, the “New Book Options” screen. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> First off, while I respect the intent to allow users the option >>>>>>>>>>>>> to set these preferences from the creation of their >>>>>>>>>>>>> file, I wonder whether this is misguided. To wit: all of these >>>>>>>>>>>>> options are quite technical in nature, and all of >>>>>>>>>>>>> them can be set at a later point by opening the appropriate >>>>>>>>>>>>> preferences. Adding these options here adds complexity >>>>>>>>>>>>> that can easily be deferred to a later point. While it is true >>>>>>>>>>>>> that this assistant runs whenever a user chooses >>>>>>>>>>>>> File->New (meaning that an experienced user might wish to add >>>>>>>>>>>>> these settings from the assistant), I am willing to >>>>>>>>>>>>> hazard a guess that most users will invoke this assistant *only* >>>>>>>>>>>>> when they first start using GnuCash, and *only* >>>>>>>>>>>>> when their heads are already swimming with the overwhelming >>>>>>>>>>>>> experience that is GnuCash. Asking a new user to choose >>>>>>>>>>>>> whether to use Trading Accounts or to Use Split Action Field for >>>>>>>>>>>>> Number is IMHO pointless. They aren’t going to be >>>>>>>>>>>>> able to make an informed decision. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> <aside>I’ll note that this becomes an obvious issue when I >>>>>>>>>>>>> attempt to write the help section for the screen. I am >>>>>>>>>>>>> left either with writing a huge explanatory section on the >>>>>>>>>>>>> details of each of these settings, which detracts from >>>>>>>>>>>>> the flow of the NAHS narrative, or with adding a generic note >>>>>>>>>>>>> that advises users to accept the defaults and read >>>>>>>>>>>>> about the details in other sections of the Guide.</aside> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> So, for the new user, the only real effect of this screen is to >>>>>>>>>>>>> introduce confusion and questions. Can it be removed >>>>>>>>>>>>> from the assistant? >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Related to this screen, my second question has to do with the >>>>>>>>>>>>> “Use Trading Accounts” setting. Can it be turned off >>>>>>>>>>>>> once it has been enabled in a given GnuCash file? >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> ISTR that this option is a one-way street—i.e., that, once turned >>>>>>>>>>>>> on, it can not be turned off again. Is this still >>>>>>>>>>>>> the case? If it is still true, then I would strongly suggest that >>>>>>>>>>>>> this option shouldn’t be placed on the NAHS >>>>>>>>>>>>> Assistant, since a new user won’t be aware of this. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> David >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> gnucash-devel mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> gnucash-devel@gnucash.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-devel >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> gnucash-devel mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> gnucash-devel@gnucash.org >>>>>>>>>>>> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-devel >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> gnucash-devel mailing list >>>>>>>>>> gnucash-devel@gnucash.org >>>>>>>>>> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-devel >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> gnucash-devel mailing list >>>>>>>>> gnucash-devel@gnucash.org >>>>>>>>> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-devel >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> gnucash-devel mailing list >>>>>> gnucash-devel@gnucash.org >>>>>> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-devel >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> gnucash-devel mailing list >>>>> gnucash-devel@gnucash.org >>>>> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-devel >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> gnucash-devel mailing list >>> gnucash-devel@gnucash.org >>> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-devel >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > gnucash-devel mailing list > gnucash-devel@gnucash.org > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-devel _______________________________________________ gnucash-devel mailing list gnucash-devel@gnucash.org https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-devel
