Adrien, I just tried using a new login on my Mac to run a newly-downloaded copy of GnuCash, and I also found myself staring at a blank screen after startup.
Having just worked on the documentation for the “Welcome to GnuCash!” screen, I am curious to know *when* that screen actually runs? Does GnuCash have some hidden element that knows that it has been run on any login of my Mac, or is this aspect broken? Seems a shame to have a welcome mat at the front door, and then have everyone use the service entrance. David > On Sep 13, 2018, at 8:53 AM, Adrien Monteleone > <adrien.montele...@lusfiber.net> wrote: > > I was going to mention this in my reply to David Cousens but didn’t want to > hijack the thread. > > The greatest source of confusion I’ve seen from new users personally is the > blank screen you see on first run with no indication what to do next. (unless > this has changed with 3.x, I haven’t started a ‘fresh’ copy of GnuCash in > some time) > > Perhaps if this screen offered buttons for “Open existing book” or “Create > new book” that then launches the appropriate assistant(s) could work well > here. > > Does this fall in line with what you mentioned about ‘first screen’ or was > that the ‘first screen of the assistant’? > > Regards, > Adrien > >> On Sep 13, 2018, at 7:41 AM, D <sunfis...@yahoo.com> wrote: >> >> Hello, >> >> Having raised yet another ruckus on the lists regarding documentation, I >> will back off altogether, and work to write documentation on the assistant >> as it is, taking care to balance the needs of the different user groups. >> >> My only final comment is to note that it is unfortunate that this assistant >> is what all users see when they click File->New. Perhaps the idea of adding >> buttons on the first screen for Business and Personal setup (along with a >> modification in sequencing for the latter option) could be implemented with >> minor developer effort? >> >> I have a greater appreciation for the many different perspectives in the >> community, and thank everyone for their input. >> >> David >> >> On September 13, 2018, at 8:10 AM, Adrien Monteleone >> <adrien.montele...@lusfiber.net> wrote: >> >> David, >> >> I agree on all points. >> >> Regards, >> Adrien >> >>> On Sep 12, 2018, at 10:19 PM, David Cousens <davidcous...@bigpond.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>> Adrien, >>> >>> While I agree with the concept David T is proposing to streamline the >>> process for new users and the thrust of your >>> comments about the new user experience, the new account heirarchy at least >>> as it is currently implemented, will be used >>> by anyone creating a new set of books, whether they are experienced Gnucash >>> users, experienced accountants, total >>> newbies or someone transferring from another program. >>> >>> As a newbie you can get a perfectly usable set of accounts for exploring >>> Gnucash by simply clicking Next through the >>> assistant then Apply and then saving the file. >>> >>> Perhaps this needs to be made clearer to new users as well as informing >>> them that any choices they make can be changed >>> later (except for the very few cases where this is not possible - I can't >>> think of any but I personally don't currently >>> use the full capabilty set of GnuCash's features but I used more in the >>> past). >>> >>> If this was done up front, they could then easily skip through. >>> >>> The suggestion John made of creating a simplified new file option with >>> defaults based on the locale and an advanced >>> setup option using the NAHS Assistant seems to meet this need as well. >>> Even knowing what you want in a CoA requires a >>> fair understanding of your accounting needs as well as the functionality of >>> GnuCash. Alternatively in other posts I >>> think both Frank and I have suggested a checkbox which by default disables >>> selecting those options which a new user is >>> going to find confusing and provides default values. >>> >>> I would have thought the CoA setup is not too bad. It comes with the common >>> accounts selected, it does perhaps give the >>> new user a view that there is a lot more to explore. Some new users will be >>> looking for business functionality and other >>> "advanced " functionality from the get go. There will always be a few new >>> users who will be confused by having to start >>> the program. >>> >>> Personally when evaluating software, I jump in without reading manuals >>> first because I figure if the interface isn't >>> intuitive to a decent extent, I am not going to want to go too much >>> further, unless I really have no other option. >>> Intuitive for an experienced computer user can however be very different >>> for someone with limited experience. My wife >>> never reads manuals ever, she just asks me. I on the other hand consult my >>> 5 year old grand daughter. >>> >>> I share Mechtilde's concern that in making things easier for the new user >>> we don't lose functionality for the >>> experienced user. We should hopefully look for mechanisms for doing both. >>> >>> David Cousens >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, 2018-09-12 at 10:33 -0500, Adrien Monteleone wrote: >>>> As someone who has helped other people get started using GnuCash (and >>>> remembering my own first steps) I agree >>>> completely with these points. Those book preferences are not self >>>> explanatory. (perhaps bugs in their own right) A new >>>> user is left to either trust the defaults and move on, pause and revisit >>>> the startup process several times while they >>>> track down help info and digest it, or give up in frustration. (I’ve seen >>>> the latter three times—you may or not be >>>> surprised how many people do *not* want to read a book before they start >>>> using a piece of software, I chose the second >>>> option personally) >>>> >>>> Unless the startup assistant (wizard, druid, whatever) can be redesigned >>>> as an explanatory walk through to choose >>>> these settings, that part should be removed and the defaults chosen for >>>> the user. >>>> >>>> As for trading accounts, I turned them on after the fact for tracking >>>> commodities as additional currencies. I’ve never >>>> bought or sold any since doing that, but I’ve played with turning the >>>> setting on and off to experiment with the >>>> setting’s effect on some reports and I’ve never noticed any issues. (but >>>> again, I only have opening balance >>>> transactions in each currency) If turning Trading Accounts off after >>>> entering buy/sell transactions is bad news, then >>>> I would think the option to do so should be disabled. >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> Adrien >>>> >>>>> On Sep 12, 2018, at 9:38 AM, David T. via gnucash-devel >>>>> <gnucash-devel@gnucash.org> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hello, >>>>> >>>>> As I begin the process of migrating text from the Help to the Guide (cf. >>>>> Bug 796855), I am working on the Help >>>>> information regarding the New Account Hierarchy Setup (NAHS) assistant, >>>>> and I have a couple of questions about the >>>>> second screen of the assistant, the “New Book Options” screen. >>>>> >>>>> First off, while I respect the intent to allow users the option to set >>>>> these preferences from the creation of their >>>>> file, I wonder whether this is misguided. To wit: all of these options >>>>> are quite technical in nature, and all of >>>>> them can be set at a later point by opening the appropriate preferences. >>>>> Adding these options here adds complexity >>>>> that can easily be deferred to a later point. While it is true that this >>>>> assistant runs whenever a user chooses >>>>> File->New (meaning that an experienced user might wish to add these >>>>> settings from the assistant), I am willing to >>>>> hazard a guess that most users will invoke this assistant *only* when >>>>> they first start using GnuCash, and *only* >>>>> when their heads are already swimming with the overwhelming experience >>>>> that is GnuCash. Asking a new user to choose >>>>> whether to use Trading Accounts or to Use Split Action Field for Number >>>>> is IMHO pointless. They aren’t going to be >>>>> able to make an informed decision. >>>>> >>>>> <aside>I’ll note that this becomes an obvious issue when I attempt to >>>>> write the help section for the screen. I am >>>>> left either with writing a huge explanatory section on the details of >>>>> each of these settings, which detracts from >>>>> the flow of the NAHS narrative, or with adding a generic note that >>>>> advises users to accept the defaults and read >>>>> about the details in other sections of the Guide.</aside> >>>>> >>>>> So, for the new user, the only real effect of this screen is to introduce >>>>> confusion and questions. Can it be removed >>>>> from the assistant? >>>>> >>>>> Related to this screen, my second question has to do with the “Use >>>>> Trading Accounts” setting. Can it be turned off >>>>> once it has been enabled in a given GnuCash file? >>>>> >>>>> ISTR that this option is a one-way street—i.e., that, once turned on, it >>>>> can not be turned off again. Is this still >>>>> the case? If it is still true, then I would strongly suggest that this >>>>> option shouldn’t be placed on the NAHS >>>>> Assistant, since a new user won’t be aware of this. >>>>> >>>>> David >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> gnucash-devel mailing list >>>>> gnucash-devel@gnucash.org >>>>> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-devel >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> gnucash-devel mailing list >>>> gnucash-devel@gnucash.org >>>> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-devel >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> gnucash-devel mailing list >> gnucash-devel@gnucash.org >> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-devel > > > _______________________________________________ > gnucash-devel mailing list > gnucash-devel@gnucash.org > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-devel _______________________________________________ gnucash-devel mailing list gnucash-devel@gnucash.org https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-devel
