On Tue, 2010-02-23 at 20:19 +0200, Xan Lopez wrote: > OK, so any of the missing caret browsing issues actually prevents the > app from working at all?
Yup. Startling, isn't it? <huge grin> Okay, all kidding aside.... Basically, there are several things going on here: 1. The accessibility work that had been done is WebKitGtk already was awesome, but sufficiently different from what we see in other Gtk+ apps that quite a bit of custom scripting would be needed in Orca in order to cause Orca to present WebKitGtk content. In addition, without fixes for the remaining caret-navigation issues, we'd likely have to implement our own caret navigation model. This tends to be not performant and at times flakey. :-( 2. There are some things we cannot script around in Orca, namely the bugs which are still open and listed as blocking bug 25531: * If an AtkRole is not implemented, Orca cannot discern what that object is, let alone present that object and the user's interaction with it correctly. * If we have no idea where content is on the screen (i.e. the character and range extents), Orca cannot piece together a line's worth of content (which is a hack to begin with) or enable the user to "flat review" it. * If we have no idea if an object is focused or not, it's at best a guess whether or not events from that object should be presented -- assuming events from that object are even being emitted. * The accessible table hierarchy is truly borked.... 3. Shaun said that he wouldn't migrate Yelp to WebKitGtk until the accessibility issues had been addressed. (Thanks Shaun!!) With all this in mind, I had to decide if I should cobble together an interim script in Orca -- to support a version of Yelp which in theory users wouldn't be seeing -- which would cause some content to be presented correctly, some content to be presented incorrectly/oddly, and some content to not be presented at all. Or should I try to become familiar with WebKitGtk internals and contribute patches to fix bugs and make what WebKitGtk presents more inline with other Gtk+ apps? Given that Yelp would still (officially) be using Gecko, I went with the latter. And I honestly do believe that when GNOME 3.0 rolls around, and Yelp is accessible *and* content in Epiphany is accessible *and* accessing this content via Orca is more reliable and more performant than what we've been able to do w.r.t. Gecko, it will have been worth it. Having said that.... Because of the decision which I made, there is no Orca script in place for WebKitGtk content at the moment. This means that unless WebKitGtk behaves 100% like a standard Gtk+ app -- which it doesn't, and which includes fixing the bugs I mentioned in an earlier message -- an Orca user is not going to have much success. :-( So the question now is where do we go from here? Do I spend my time hacking something together in Orca which only kinda sorta works to address the fact that Debian and Ubuntu have decided to do their own thing? Or do I spend my time trying to work on the WebKitGtk side of things? I'm sure my tone conveys my opinion. ;-) However, if the community consensus is that I should try to get *something* working on the Orca side of things, I will do my very best. (And yes, Xan, I know. I've been away from WebKit for the past several weeks. There were some significant changes -- and regressions -- in Firefox 3.6 a11y which had many Orca users very unhappy. So I got diverted temporarily to sort all of that out. :-( ) --joanie _______________________________________________ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list
