Hi
Since people like to bounce emails all over the place I've subscribed to the
orca list as well so my mails won't get caught in the spam filter. If I have
missed an email list I appologize in advance. On the other hand I would rather
keep the discussion to one list to keep the amount of mails sane and the debate
centralized. Therefore I think gnome-accessibility list is better than the orca
list for the debate since it is more generall in nature than specific to Orca.
Replies follows to all letters in the debate.
As I read all replies I got "much appriciation for that:-)" I don't see that
we're having very diffrent views from each other. Rather diffrent views from
the same side of the fence if you follow my metaphor.
I agree that Sun and all involved are doing a great job we're all in debt to
all of these people wether they are payed to do it or not.
Anthony's work is a good start and surely something that lowers the bar for
people to test out linux.
I might have wished he organized it with the community first so maybe double
work could have been avoided or bonds of cooperation could have been formed
earlier.
But no reason to cry over spilled milk right and actions speak louder than
words so I can only cheer for Vibuntu and hope it only improves over time.
My questioning was made in the goodest of intents to get a creative discussion
started of best practices pros and cons of diffrent implementations and so on.
Iam glad so many has an opinion and that you have made me think about what I
said reevaluate that and sharpen the arguments and thoughts on the subject.
About logging in automatically I can accept it as long as it is used on the
live cd and not after proper install.
About what accessibility aids should be activated I just suggested that a user
centric view much like in usability design where you lett the user decide what
to use and how, would be more preferable. If not in an kiosk system like a live
cd defenetly in a normaly installed system. I might even agree that the guest
user acount could be enabled from the start with all aids when installed onto
disk since you might not know which user will be your computers next guest and
since I asume we're talking about a fairly new machine. Alternative the user
could state a disability category and all relevant aids for that would load if
the system provided aids for more than one category witch Vibuntu doesn't seem
to aim for.
A small wizard with some questions could have made it easy to collect relevant
data to configure a setup for the user needed. During this process all aids
should be activated so that you no matter what disability could complete the
wizard. Let me give an example:
1. What kind of disability do you need after setup?
"You can mark several options with the spacebar and arrow keys. Press Enter
when done.
a. Braille
b. Text to speech
c. Speech to text
d. Visual ques
e. Magnification
f. Mousekeys
g. Extra keyboard function (typerate, sticky keys, etc)
h. pictogram
After pressing okey next steps would be to configure the selected options to
the users liking one by one. Maybe those options that is language specific
could be set in advance depending on what language the user has chosen at
install or bootup if live cd is used.
Finaly: Thank you for completing setup of the system your computer is ready to
be used.
This would enable only wanted aids and disable all others plus configured them.
We know that aids take a toll on performance and expecialy in "live"
environments be it from cd,dvd or usb. It also would minimize risk for
conflicts and bugs since less code is running. For a new user with a system
that has frozen or where he isn't familiar and might not understand how to
navigate etc is not very faar from hitting the hard reset button and turning to
windows instead.
End example
Iam not realy sure witch user group Anthony is targeting.
A new user probably will not do this alone.
An early adopter would probably forgive some rough spots
and an experienced user would probably be able to "as many of you pointed out"
fix most of these things himself.
Since visual impairment is a disability that affects all parts of your life Iam
wondering if anyone could just put a vibuntu cd in anyones hand and just leave
them to figure out the rest. Even though the year of the linux desktop has been
many times anounced and improvements in usability certainly has been made I
doubt its enough especialy when having a disability. Therefore I believe more
instructional and guiding content might be needed for new users.
A thought might be to strip out the 10mb of example files if it hasn't been
done already to gain some room. I heard they might increase this in next
release.
Thanks for the straighting me out on the admin tools issue. Guess it is some
twitching nerv in me that go off when I hear userspace programs needing root
access to work. I might have thought the problem was bigger than it was as well.
okey thats it for now.
Feels good to have straighted those things out.
cu on the list
\Peter
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