Excellent. That bugged me if I waited after power up before logging on but I couldn't repro on demand. I discussed with Ubuntu (Luke?) but we got nowhere so really pleased it's been fixed. Way cool I have no other issues with a11y on all the time. ;-)
-- Steve Lee -- Open Source Assistive Technology Software web: fullmeasure.co.uk blog: eduspaces.net/stevelee/weblog On 04/06/2008, Willie Walker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Now that this bug has been fixed for 2.24, we may have gotten rid of one > of the last remaining barriers to enabling a11y by default: > > http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=524263 > > Will > > > Peter Korn wrote: > > Hey Willie, > > > > Regarding #5 below - enabling accessibility on the desktop: I think it > > is worth asking the question whether we are ready to have desktop > > accessibility support on by default. It takes more memory, so we > > certainly want to allow folks to turn it off if they don't need it. And > > in the past it was more unstable than any of us liked (and so folks who > > didn't need it wanted it off by default). But... it is being used more > > and more by folks doing testing of GUIs in general (thanks to dogtail, > > et. al.) and it has been getting a lot more testing in general. > > > > So, maybe for GNOME 2.24 this would be a possibility? > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Peter Korn > > Accessibility Architect, > > Sun Microsystems, Inc. > > > >> I agree that things are a little confusing right now. I'm not sure I've > >> fully understood/appreciated the motivation for why things are the way > >> they currently are. This might be a good opportunity to clarify, > >> improve, or both. :-) > >> > >> I think there are a bunch of different problems to think about: > >> > >> 0) How do I know what accessibility solutions GNOME offers? These > >> include global system preferences (e.g., AccessX and theming) as well as > >> assistive technologies (e.g., Orca, GOK, Dasher, MouseTweaks). One > >> solution is word-of-mouth, which should not be discounted as a > >> reasonable solution. Another solution is to read the documentation, > >> which we are improving as part of GOPA. Another is to scour the > >> "Applications" menu to see what's there (i.e., the same way I'd stumble > >> across an e-mail client or web browser). Another is to scour the > >> "Preferences" menu for assistive technology preferences. This all seems > >> like it could be cleaner. > >> > >> 1) How do I enable theming and/or AccessX features on the login screen? > >> For theming, I believe the current solution is to offer an optional > >> menu on the username/password dialog, which is OK. For AccessX, the > >> current solution is to make sure AccessX is enabled in the X server and > >> to rely upon the de facto settings and keyboard gestures built in the > >> XKB server extension. This is marginally OK, and tends to be the > >> solution we see on public information kiosks (i.e., you don't get your > >> exact personal preferences, but you should get enough to allow you to > >> log in). > >> > >> 2) How do I launch an assistive technology from the login screen? While > >> it requires a one-time sysadmin operation to enable accessible login, > >> the current solution of keyboard and/or mouse gestures for gdm seems to > >> be reasonable for many users. Doing so requires a priori knowledge of > >> the keyboard/mouse gestures, but perhaps some automatic 'help' content > >> generation might be possible? In addition, a dialog as suggested in the > >> kick off for this thread might help some users as long as they do not > >> need an assistive technology to access the dialog. > >> > >> 3) How do I 'carry over' accessibility from the login screen to the > >> desktop session? The current solution is to treat the gdm session and > >> the desktop session as separate. This presents an issue for users until > >> they've customized their desktop session for accessibility. That is, > >> the solution is that there is no carry over and that the user needs to > >> customize their desktop session for accessibility. > >> > >> 4) Related to #3, there are at least two solutions for autostarting > >> assistive technologies: general autostart for GNOME and a special > >> "Accessibility" tab on the preferred applications dialog > >> (gnome-default-applications-properties). The overlap of these has been > >> a source of confusion to me. For simplicity, it has seemed to me that > >> the assistive technology itself should be the one to offer the "start me > >> on log in" option, and it should do so by just adding itself to the > >> general autostart list for GNOME. > >> > >> 5) Related to #3, how do I enable a11y for the desktop? The current > >> solution is to provide the a11y preferences dialog for this. IMO, this > >> is kind of counterintuitive and is probably something that should > >> instead be provided by the tool that requires the a11y infrastructure to > >> be enabled (e.g., Orca, GOK, DogTail, etc.). > >> > >> 6) Related to #2, can I create a customized a11y environment for gdm? > >> That is, always set the theme by default, always enable SlowKeys with a > >> timeout of 0.75 seconds, etc. I have no great answer for this since > >> I've always been accustomed to the login screen being a shared system > >> resource on a multiuser system. :-( > >> > >> In any case, I think this is a good discussion. We definitely have room > >> for improvement/clarity. > >> > >> Will > >> > >> Brian Cameron wrote: > >> > >>> Matthias: > >>> > >>> > >>>> Imo an approach like the one taken by Jon McCann in the new gdm a11y > >>>> dialog (see http://live.gnome.org/GDM/Screenshots ) is much more > >>>> straightforward and we should look at doing something similar inside > >>>> the session. > >>>> > >>> I agree that the new dialog is a big step forward. It is a good idea > >>> to provide a user-visible dialog where users can select the a11y > >>> programs they wish to run. > >>> > >>> However, this interface is lacking because many users with disabilities > >>> simply cannot navigate the GUI to begin with unless the a11y programs > >>> they need are already running. A chicken-and-egg problem. > >>> > >>> I know the new GDM does support the ability to always launch (autostart) > >>> additional programs, which can be used to start a11y programs along with > >>> GDM. This perhaps meets the needs of a single-user desktop. However, > >>> this doesn't work well on multi-user desktops or terminal server > >>> settings where some users may need text-to-speech, others may need > >>> magnification, and others might not need any additional a11y programs to > >>> be running. > >>> > >>> I think this "support a11y on multi-user servers for users who may have > >>> different a11y needs" is an important use case that should be addressed > >>> before a general solution be implemented into the GNOME desktop. > >>> > >>> Brian > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Gnome-accessibility-devel mailing list > >>> Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org > >>> http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-devel > >>> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Gnome-accessibility-devel mailing list > >> Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org > >> http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-devel > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > Gnome-accessibility-devel mailing list > Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-devel > On 05/06/2008, Jason White <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Wed, Jun 04, 2008 at 04:28:04PM -0400, Willie Walker wrote: > > Now that this bug has been fixed for 2.24, we may have gotten rid of one > > of the last remaining barriers to enabling a11y by default: > > > > http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=524263 > > > This is great news. Thanks to all involved. > > This bug has been annoying me more than any other, since my laptop quite > often > fails to load the AT-SPI registry on time, and all I can do is type > ctrl-alt-backspace to kill the X server and try again. > > The machine isn't particularly slow (a 1.8ghz AMD Athlon64 CPU, 1gb RAM), but > it uses CPU frequency scaling, and the hard drive is probably only a 5400 rpm > IDE disk. > > > _______________________________________________ > Gnome-accessibility-devel mailing list > Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-devel > -- Steve Lee -- Open Source Assistive Technology Software web: fullmeasure.co.uk blog: eduspaces.net/stevelee/weblog _______________________________________________ Gnome-accessibility-devel mailing list Gnome-accessibility-devel@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-devel