(*)I put an asterisk next to my mention of password protected MRI scan cdrom earlier.
What would be the rationale for passwording this? I guess the rationale is you receive the password by other means. As an aside, surely the format is DICOM? On Fri, 23 Aug 2024 at 16:45, Damion Yates via GLLUG < [email protected]> wrote: > On Tue, 13 Aug 2024, Polarian via GLLUG wrote: > > > By the time I wrote this email, many relies flooded in, so I will > > answer all of them in this email. > > It was so busy I was put off replying as I tried to keep up before I > could speak up myself! > I was very pleased to see all the in-line responses but I'd not bothered > fixing my alpine to use xoauth2 on my consumer gmail.com. I usually fwd > these emails to my work address where alpine is working, but can't reply > to the list from there. > > (I've [snipped] various chunks in my response) > > > John: > > > >> I think the main problem is that Linux has both become mainstream > >> enough that help is available through many other channels, and also > >> complex/fragmented enough that a general Linux mailing list may not > >> be the best place to get help. > > > > I believe this is still untrue. > > I completely agree. Sure, it's everywhere, e.g. Android, routers, > almost all serving infrastructure and HPC. But it definitely isn't > mainstream and most people haven't heard of it despite it being around > over 30 years. > > I grew increasingly upset through the day when I heard about > Cloudstrike, especially with significant press coverage through that day > proving how critical MS are. Obviously almost nobody where I work was > affected (mostly linux with >200k people not using windows). I didn't > know until I saw it mentioned in the news. After this I saw the true > extent of continued growth of Windows. I hadn't realised airports or > banks were now critically dependant on it. This feels new to me. Then > there is the British Library > > https://www.bl.uk/home/british-library-cyber-incident-review-8-march-2024.pdf > this write-up reminds me of the mentality of the 1990s and initial > 2000s. I had hoped that mentality had stopped and I'm pretty certain > banks and airports were on bespoke highly robust systems, not that > they'd been sold a solution from MS in the past decade or so. > > > Personally if add it up, I've barely used Windows more than a few days > in my entirely life, moving between several companies that didn't > mandate its use, or better that were actively insistent on you using > Linux. > I'm still hoping for the year of linux on the desktop! > > I love my old X11 window manager and find it hard to cope with change > (Wayland, systemd, hotplug, resolvers, a.out->ELF, lilo->grub, dnsmasq, > sysv vs bsd inits...). I cope as and so far have been able to learn the > new ways, even if they're not as good, I still have a rc.local with a > bunch of post boot fixups :-} But so far I'm not hindered in using > xterm, screen, ssh, irc, pine & vi to work and relax as I have been able > to do since the late 1900s. (Wayland might piss me off a lot...) > > Basically I hope to move through life largely unaffected by the ups and > downs. For several decades things got better or worse in terms of not > feeling like a 2nd class citizen. > > Sometimes you'd see new companies supporting linux, games ported, > drivers from the h/w companies themselves, breakthroughs in computing > infra being linux based as a critical backend (most cloud services), > wine and proton largely solving issues where you sadly have to run a > .exe rather than hope somebody ported a workable solution natively. > > Then you'd get Secureboot, EFI (PE executables), winmodems, winprinters, > audio drivers, ndiswrapper+wpa_supplicant, firmware updates as a .exe, > DRM solutions for watching films, DVD playback, new h/w utterly > unsupported, passwd protected MRI scan cdroms*, companies deciding to > move to Exchange but disabling IMAP. And before I forget... Almost > *ALL* new laptops have h/w driver issues, with only an expensive few > letting you use all features. Fingerprint reader, touchpad, audio, BT, > wifi, webcam... You basically have to research and pick which laptop. > This has got worse, not better in the past decades. > > Many of these negatives get rectified, but sometimes you're in such a > niche it's down to you, or you have to give up, buy different h/w, > switch jobs to avoid needing Windows (or MacOS/ChromeOS). I frequently > encounter https://xkcd.com/979/ > > It's this last part that stresses me. I've managed to get by for > decades, but none of the core attitudes have fundamentally changed. > > > ***** > I stand by this: > > Linux is not yet mainstream for desktop/laptop use. > > Worse, I now realise it's not even a given that companies who need > fileserving/webserving infra would select it. Cloudstrike taught me > this recently :( > ***** > > > There has not been an improvement in the attitude of execs in companies, > either for users wanting to use linux, or h/w companies wanting to sell > loads of h/w and make money. Why bother helping a small percentage of > users? > > I fear that at any point in the future a new way of doing things, > similar to secureboot, could cause all linux users to have to use old > h/w or expensive h/w to get by. > > I know secureboot was addressed quite quickly by volunteers and linux > companies but these are tiny in comparison to MS. Also MS broke it for > many very recently. I saw this days ago in the news and it requires > users to have linux boot skills to fix and address this to get back into > their (I would hope main) partition. > > I'll leave my Wayland rant to another thread! Sorry this is so verbose, > but it's nice we have a LUG where I can vent and get this off my chest. > > > You will very rarely find any Linux/FOSS enthusiasts if you pop to the > > local boozer (I am yet to hear any techy convos :P), or even at > > University, very few people know what Linux is at my University, and > > only a few have started using it since they started. And this is > > within computer science, where you would expect to find Linux users, > > in other subjects where people who may be interested in Linux/FOSS but > > studying say mathematics, or maybe literature, they will be even less > > likely to bump into another Linux user. > > This is sad to hear. I went to uni in the late 1900s and it was a UNIX > first environment in almost all universities > (we had SG IRIX machines, most mostly Sun SPARC, with a handful of > Linux). > There was DOS/Netware/Windows for non-tech students increasing in use > over the 3 years I was there. Society around me was changing, the old > days of Mac, Amiga, ST, Archimedes as choices for companies, who were > moving on from UNIX/CPM (some still 8bit). Moved to basically > *everyone* must use PCs with Windows. Gamers with ZX Speccies, who > might have moved to an Atari ST, etc, moved to a console (e.g. > Playstation) or a Windows PC. > > I had assumed/hoped that centres of excellence like Universities would > have moved from legacy expensive UNIX, to free Linux, with Windows PCs > just for non tech students writing their dissertations. > > My daughter is headed off to study CompSci and I had planned on showing > her some UNIX techy cmdline stuff before she starts, but I assume this > is now a waste of time? > > > Also yes, you don't hear tech talk in pubs enough. I used to go to > SCLUG pub meets in Reading when I lived in the silicon corridor, but I > can't recall *ever* going for drinks with GLLUG. > > To all: I like drinking, I live and work near KX in Camden. [update, see > the bottom of this thread] > > >> That said there's still things which turn up here which don't appear > >> anywhere else, and enough "old school" users to remember solutions to > >> rare problems. > > Actually yes this interesting. Sadly I feel like people have moved to > Windows/MacOS, I know old, hardened, greybeared, UNIX friends, who > simply moved to MacOS as they tired of fixing stuff as a 2nd class > citizen. I found it shocking as I'm in the same camp socially but > haven't given up yet. > > (*)I put an asterisk next to my mention of password protected MRI scan > cdrom earlier. This took me >4hrs to eventually hack wine enough to get > it working. Once decrypted, I was able to use its Windows .exe to look > at the scan, but I initiated an unencrypted export so I could use an > open source X11 solution thereafter. > > Alternatively maybe there are fewer queries for support as everything is > better and there are fewer esoteric issues cropping up so less help is > needed. I'm not entirely a pessimist! Perhaps external support/web > searches are working better. > > >> I don't know the status of the IRC channel as I never used it > > > > Shame, hanging out on IRC is fun! > > I don't think I knew one for this LUG. I suffer FOMO so tend to like to > keep up to completion. But I'm simply far too busy to be able to keep > up, so I'd rather cut off my nose to spite my face and not join in the > 1st place. At work we use IRC and it's popular. > > >> there haven't in-person meetings for many years except for an > >> occasional meet-up in a pub. > > > > I thought that was what most lug meetups were, discussing Linux and > > FOSS stuff over a nice pint. > > > > Was there more interesting meetups? Mini hackathons? local events? > > +1 on doing this. I'm up for drinks. > > > I thought it would be a good idea to investigate groups in my region > > (London) especially how I am trying to branch out and begin to attend > > events, finding ones close to home would be great! > > Glad you reached out, nice to meet you! > > > Currently I am planning to attend EuroBSDCon (I know its not Linux, > > but its still *nix) > > > > However these are all international, and I have seen other lug's relay > > event information within the surrounding regions, but there seems to > > be no lug's left in/near London, and also no Linux/FOSS events around > > here either. > > A pity. > > > Martin: > > > >> Most LUGs are dying, if not already dead. Why? Very simple: we won. > >> > >> Linux went from a hobbyist OS used by geeks and weirdos to global > >> ubiquity. The geeks and weirdos are still the same, though. > > Er... see above. > > [snipped] > > >> with many keen university students as members who were able to > >> contact package developers visiting London and persuade them to give > >> talks on their pet subjects. > > > > And yet, Linux is still not big within universities, at least > > non-russell group universities. > > > > My university exclusively uses Windows, apart from a few Macbooks > > which computer science staff use (MacOS is better than Windows in > > their eyes) but they are trying to get rid of them too. > > *sobs* > > [snipped nostalgic rant] > > >> Mailing lists are for old people. Old people are finding "better" > >> things to do with their time than edit > >> /etc/wpa_supplicant/wpa_supplicant.conf, like dying or spending time > >> with the family or in the garden. > > > > Yikes... that is very negative. > > Er... see above. > > [snipped refreshing insight from somebody younger who is clearly old > beyond their years with a passion for tech and linux ;)] > > > > > [snipped the realisation that the world lacks enough scientists and > techies meeting up and chatting] > > > Linux didn't win, in fact I would say it lost. It was adopted server > > side, and then wrapped up in abstractions to appeal to the average > > young person. > > Yes this ^^^ > > > The nerdy side died, Linux didn't win, windows simply failed. You > > have Linux which is all about you being free to use however you like, > > and what do the younger generation do? > > > Make the most flashy eye candy desktop possible. Do you think any of > > them care about FOSS or the *nix way of doing things? No. > > TBF enlightenment was huge in the 1990s and that's exactly what you're > describing. > > I'm unsure where the deep techie discussions moved to. I was addicted > to Usenet news back in the day, constantly reading everything (FOMO) in > a number of tech groups, same with various IRC channels. To answer the > overriding question of this thread about where that's gone, well > personally I'm just *extremely* busy. Look how long it took me to find > time to reply to this. Admittedly I work with a bunch of techies and > scientists who do chat about techy things at lunch. I also got married > and had kids which eats time. Perhaps the getting old and dying is a > bit of a grim assumption, but having kids is a massive time sink. > Perhaps the younger generations aren't ramping up enough into linux (or > general tech) and this is created the void you've observed. Apparently > the news tells me that the younger generation isn't even drinking in > pubs either... > > I have a job where I manage a bunch of SRE/SWE experts, only some of > whom are linux experts. It's just not needed, things work well here. > When you start, there are fantastic defaults for .pinerc, .vimrc and > .bashrc for example. I consider this a culture++ indication. > > As for FOSS, well to be honest I don't care that much about the free (as > in libre) side of Linux. I despise arguments about BSD vs GPL vs etc... > > If I felt its intentional insidious licensing nature would prevent the > stuff I ranted about earlier happening with proprietary h/w and drivers > not working, I might give a cr*p. But practically nobody in the > industry cares and it's not helping anyway. I'm perfectly happy with > closed source but UNIX ethos systems. E.g. I prefer a nippy X11 system > with proprietary nvidia drivers, over a righteous open source driver. > > I'll happily discuss the pragmatic security issues over a pint. > > > You only tend to find self hosting in privacy paranoid circles these > > days. The type of people who believe that leaking one packet to the > > government would be the end of their life. > > Spot on. > > >> IRC is dead(*). People tend to use Telegram, Signal, Discord, Matrix > >> (ugh), and friends. I still chat to people I met through LUGs most > >> days. Just not here. > >> > >> * I am in around 30 channels, they're almost all dead. > > > > Which is sad, truly sad, but that doesn't mean its the end? > > +1 > > > IRC will never die, no matter what > > It would be nice if I could attach an IRC client to the various > replacements (WhatsApp, Discord, Slack, Google Chat, FB messenger) and I > typically can for some of those (FB, slack & google certainly, some > using bitlbee), but the lack of threading makes you a 2nd class citizen. > > >> If you're looking for companionship or friendly banter, I'd recommend > >> organising something, announcing where you will be and when. People > >> nearby or willing will turn up, usually, in small numbers. > > > > I could think of nothing more scary that meeting up with a bunch of > > strangers, especially as someone from a younger generation. > > > Not to mention the fact I will have a disproportionate amount of > > knowledge compared to the type of people who hang around lug's, it > > would be like trying to explain rocket science to a baby. > > > > Apologies for the email being so long, I didn't want to send multiple > > emails so I condensed it all as best I could. > > Thank you so much for reaching out and starting this thread. If it > helps, I'm outgoing and like chatting. I'd be up for drinks/curry in > KX, my local curry house would treat people nicely. Let's aim for a > weekday after the bank holiday and ~6 people from this list, which might > be a stretch given the entire point of this thread is about how little > you find this happening these days. > > If people +1 this (you could swamp the list or reply directly), we can > select a date and time. My wife *is* a linux user but I strongly > suspect she'd prefer the night off :-} I'll ask anyway. > > > Best wishes, > > - Damion > > > PS I've reformatted with flowed formatting. Almost nobody old-school > should notice (other than those in Mutt/Pine where it's now better), but > depending on the email client it'll allow dynamic screen widths and > remain clean, whilst adhering to ~72 width as recommended for textual > emails. If you're using vim to compose you should :set fo+=aw > > Also if anyone is using the old mobile gmail in a phone browser, it > still supports flowed formatting, but they deprecated this in the new > desktop UI about 6 years ago, sadly so did Outlook, possibly other > clients. I have no idea why, probably ignorance rather than > intentionally aiming to make text email look ugly. If anyone happens to > want to moan at Google about this, I'm still waiting on b/77258484 (Mar > 29, 2018) to fix this. > > -- > GLLUG mailing list > [email protected] > https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/gllug >
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