On Thu, 2007-11-08 at 02:24 +0000, James wrote: [...] > All you have said presupposes one (erroneous) assumption: that is an easy > to use graphical install cannot be used if the distro is source code > based. Nothing could be further from the truth. An easy to use > graphical installation, should only be for getting the HD prepared, kernel > installed and a minimum number of software packages installed. Then the > customizing could continue as is normal via the handbook. >
Actually I did not make that assumption, and in fact tried (and failed obviously) to de-emphasize Gentoo being source based... yep, only mentioned it once. What I did mention multiple times (which apparently did not come across) was the low-level, hands-on approach that Gentoo has traditionally taken (of which being source based is only a part). A graphical install tool, while certainly welcome as another "choice" for Gentoo users to make, doesn't exactly fit that tradition. > A nice graphical installation process would help the distro grow and gain > presence in more places, which is always a good thing. The 'mindset' > that if gentoo had some easy to use graphical install, it would alter the > mega-distro (sourcecode) nature of Gentoo, is misguided at best. > I.E. they are not mutually exclusive, but complimentary. I have nothing against a graphical installation per se (other than it being mandatory). My only issue with the current implementation is simple: A lot of people who use it find it doesn't work. This gives Gentoo a bad rep. People use it and assume all of Gentoo is going to be easy-to-use. Then feel disappointed when it isn't. This gives Gentoo a bad rep. > > Distros survive, regardless of being free or for sell, because they > attract a large user base. Gentoo needs an easy to use, graphical > installation CD, period. What I would do is lower(simplify) the goals of what > that installation CD accomplishes. Once you get a drive prepared, > kernel installed and the basic tools installed (binary > or compiled). At that point, it's fairly straightforward to turn the box > into a server, firewall, or workstation. There are lots of distros (Linux and non-Linux) that either don't have a graphical install and/or don't have a large user base and still survive. I mean Slackware is probably the oldest living distro, is still kicking and screaming (for some strange reason) and it doesn't even have decent package management. OpenBSD, which Gentoo more closely resembles than Ubuntu, has been around almost as long as Slack and it doesn't have a graphical installation. > You, nor any respondent has given one shred of evidence as to why the > installation CD cannot be graphical, easy to use and still be the gentoo we > all > know and love ( that is source code based). Its only a guess, but I think > the devs that work on the CD are trying to make the installation full featured > just like going through the handbook. Simplify and drop those troublesome > features/options found in the handbook, in order to simplify the creation > of an installation CD. After all 3 types of stages use to be offered, now > the stage 3 is the most preferred. In the end you still end up with the > same gentoo system regardless if you use stage 1 or stage 3, eventually. If someone wants to develop and maintain a graphical installation cd as an alternative to the native one than that's cool so long as I'm not forced to use it. If the current one worked most of the time and wasn't misleading I wouldn't have a problem with it, in fact I'd probably wouldn't even have heard of it. Unfortunately it doesn't not seem to meet those stantards. > Does it not sound a little weird that many folks recommend using another > installation CD to facilitate the installation of Gentoo? Not installation CD: boot media. But to answer your question I don't find it weird at all. It's one of the selling points of Gentoo. A few months ago I installed Gentoo on a partition on a machine that was installed with Ubuntu just by creating a partition, downloading a stage3 tarball and doing a chroot. Maybe it's weird to the outsider, but I think it's wonderful. -- Albert W. Hopkins -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
