On Mon, 2023-05-08 at 09:53 +0200, Florian Schmaus wrote: > On 02.05.23 21:45, Sam James wrote: > > Florian Schmaus <f...@gentoo.org> writes: > > > On 27/04/2023 23.16, Sam James wrote: > > > > Florian Schmaus <f...@gentoo.org> writes: > > > > > On 26/04/2023 18.12, Matt Turner wrote: > > > > > > On Wed, Apr 26, 2023 at 11:31 AM Florian Schmaus <f...@gentoo.org> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > The discussion would be more productive if someone who is > > > > > > > supporting the > > > > > > > EGO_SUM deprecation could rationally summarize the main arguments > > > > > > > why we > > > > > > > deprecated EGO_SUM. > > > > > > You're requesting the changes. It's on you to read the previous > > > > > > threads and try to understand. It's not others' responsibilities to > > > > > > justify the status quo to you, but tl;dr is Manifest files grew to > > > > > > insane sizes for golang packages with many dependencies, and the > > > > > > Manifest size is a cost all Gentoo users pay regardless of whether > > > > > > they use the package. > > > > > > > > > > I am sorry. I did try to understand the reasoning in the previous > > > > > threads. However, I do not conclude that the "cost" users must pay for > > > > > EGO_SUM justifies EGO_SUM's deprecation. It is the other way around: > > > > > EGO_SUM's advantages do not explain its deprecation, even if users > > > > > have to pay a cost. > > > > > > > > > > You write that the "Manifest sizes grew to insane sizes"? > > > > > > > > > > At which boundary does a package size, the total size of the package's > > > > > directory, become insane? > > > > > > > > > > Disk space is cheap. Currently, ::gentoo, without metadata, is around > > > > > 470 MiB. If you add 10 Go packages with a whopping 200 KiB each, then > > > > > this adds 2 MiB to that. I need someone to explain how this > > > > > constitutes an issue with disk space. Even if we add 100 Go packages, > > > > > probably roughly the number of Go packages we have in ::gentoo, then > > > > > those 20 MiB are not significant. Needless to say that the average > > > > > size of a Go package is less than the 200 KiB uses in this > > > > > calculation. > > > > The numbers you've used here suggest you've missed some of the > > > > big problematic cases from the past: > > > > - https://bugs.gentoo.org/833478 (1.1MB manifest) > > > > - https://bugs.gentoo.org/833477 (1.6MB manifest) > > > > > > Thanks for pointing those bugs out. > > > > > > But please allow me to clarify that I did not miss those "problematic" > > > cases from the past. > > > > This kind of phrasing is the sort of thing which makes it seem like you > > don't appreciate/acknowledge others' concerns. > > I am genuinely sorry if my usage of "problematic" made it appear that I > do not appreciate the other's concerns. Like most people on this mailing > list, I appreciate everyone who cares about Gentoo and raises concerns. > > I do, however, not share the concerns regarding EGO_SUM. > > It is hard to share concerns based on rather abstract reasons—for > example, the portrayal of EGO_SUM as unfair. > > It would be easier to share concerns if somebody gave concrete reasons > against EGO_SUM. For example, use cases that are no longer possible. Or > developers or users who are restricted in their work by EGO_SUM in a > relevant way. > > But actual problems that currently speak against the use of EGO_SUM have > not surfaced. > > > > I said problematic because it was clearly beyond what your worst-case > > estimates were, i.e. far more than what you were saying would be a > > large amount for the purposes of calculations. > > Using the term "worst-case", even if I put it in quotes, probably got > people on the wrong track. I am sorry for that; my bad. It is, in > general, impossible even to approximate the worst-case size-increase of > ::gentoo. > > Our best chance is to use historical data to interpolate the future. > > My back-of-the-envolope calculation was 256 Go-packages, with each > having 1 MiB. An analysis of the three on 2022-02-16, at the commit > right before Minikube and k3s were cleaned, showed that only five > packages out of 120 had larger package-directory sizes than one MiB. > > 256 Go-packages is roughly the number of Go-packages we have right now. > Assuming they all have a package-directory size of 1.6 MiB, the most > extensive EGO_SUM package the analysis yielded so far, we end up with > 410 MiB. > > The point you criticize was that a system able to handle the current > size of ::gentoo would also be able to manage an additional 256 MiB. The > point still stands if we exchange the 256 MiB with 410 MiB. > > Furthermore, both numbers, 256 MiB and 410 MiB, are based on the > over-approximation that every EGO_SUM package uses 1.6 MiB, which is > almost certainly not the case. The mean package-directory size of a > EGO_SUM using package at 2022-02-16 was 280 KiB. >
Please extend this analysis to Manifest changes over time, and how they are going to impact total gentoo.git size. -- Best regards, Michał Górny
