On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 12:35 AM, Wyatt Epp <wyatt....@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 11:06 AM, William Hubbs <willi...@gentoo.org> > wrote: > > > > No sir, I was not telling a half-truth. > > > > If the default configuration is stored in /lib/udev/rules.d for example, > > and you can override that default by dropping files of the same name in > > /etc/udev/rules.d, I don't see what the concern is. > > > Oh, that's easy. The concern is that, as a sysadmin, I have no idea > what the current configuration even is, let alone any idea that the > override is even possible or how the override file is formatted. This > problem is magnified for every thing that works this way multiplied > again by every instance that the configuration needs to be checked or > changed (because it likely needs to be looked up again because it's in > a non-standard place and we humans don't remember things well if > they're not a constant presence in our lives). > > In short: Making life easier for users is why distros even exist in > the first place. This method lacks transparency and makes life harder > for users. > I think this is a reasonable thing to ask for, I just doubt anyone will volunteer to implement it. > > On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 1:31 PM, Alec Warner <anta...@gentoo.org> wrote: > > > > it is easy for a some users to determine, using existing tools (vim, > less, > > etc.) to view what the configuration state is. > > > This point is incredibly important: It should really never require a > search engine to even determine what the current config looks like. I > don't care if it involves moving the canonical config, or putting a > stub config in /etc with a comment to the effect of: > # This file is for overrides; please see /lib/foo/bar for the default > system configuration. > > ...or throwing a bunch of code at it to invent a better config > tracking tool (again), or whatever. > > Or say "screw it" and this thread dies with no tangible action like so > many others; enjoy your papercuts, users. > > > When the default configs are in /lib/udev/.../ and the over-rides are in > > /etc/udev/.../ that is perhaps less clear. Many applications already > provide > > app specific tools for this. You can run apt-config dump to dump your > entire > > apt configuration (on debian / ubuntu) for example. I'm unsure if polkit > or > > dbus have a tool that will read in the configuration and dump what the > > daemon thinks the state would be (if it loaded it.) (puppet has > > > Oh PLEASE don't let this become a trend. I can't fathom any > legitimate reason to reinvent cat repeatedly. > Many of the config files are large, and splitting them into segments makes it easier to read. > > gconf, dconf, polkit, dbus, all do stuff like this. I actually find the > > solution somewhat elegant from my side as a sysadmin. > > > I'm curious: how many people have you encountered who even know those > can be configured? (Never mind things like "how does this work?" or > "what does this even do?"; you've made a very nice list of things > hardly anyone understands. :/ ) > I configure dbus and polkit on a regular basis...but I also managed a very large fleet of desktops, and very few servers. Pretty much the exact opposite of most Gentoo developers I think, which is why I have the opposite opinion of many of them. > > Cheers, > Wyatt > >
