Yes, I agree to some degree with the points that Cédric and Julian are making. For me the wording is critical. If the wording is "original creator of the technology behind Apache Foo" or similar I have less concern, assuming it is true, but I also see wording sometimes that causes confusion or diminishes the role of a broader community. Do we need a blanket rule or a common sense guideline?
On Tue, Mar 25, 2025 at 7:55 PM Cédric Champeau <cedric.champ...@gmail.com> wrote: > > I would like to introduce some nuance here, because like Julian I think > moral rights is an important topic. I'd like to make a difference between > stating _facts_, that is "XY was at the origin of creation of ASF Foo" and > explicitly promoting XY as the creator of ASF Foo. In other words, I think > that we don't have to erase history and mention that someone or some > company was at the origin of a project at ASF. However, I think that this > shouldn't be something _promoted_, which is a very different thing. e.g, > having a home page which says "ASF Foo, a project created by XY" is wrong. > In addition, it shouldn't be a problem for XY to say that they were at the > origin of ASF Foo, unless it's an unreasonable representation of the truth. > > Le mar. 25 mars 2025 à 10:41, Julian Hyde <jhyde.apa...@gmail.com> a écrit : > > > I don’t think it’s a great idea. It curtails an important aspect of > > intellectual property called "moral rights" — the right to be recognized > > for things one has created. > > > > I get why ASF wants to do this, given that companies are inclined to make > > expansive claims and imply that they control a project. But it seems > > heavy-handed, especially when it comes to individuals speaking about their > > own work. > > > > As a software engineer, moral rights are a foundation for my reputation > > and a career. If I cannot exercise those moral rights, the ASF has taken > > away from me one of the few ways that I am rewarded for open source work. > > > > I’m not a lawyer, but I think ASF will have trouble enforcing this rule. > > Of course it can silence its own projects — but that would mean the > > projects cannot talk freely about their own origins and history, which > > seems to me a healthy thing for a project to do. It may have some control > > over companies that wish to use ASF trademarks. But I don’t see how it can > > effectively control the speech of individuals, even individuals who are ASF > > contributors or members. > > > > Julian (original developer of Apache Calcite) > > > > > On Mar 25, 2025, at 2:01 AM, Jean-Baptiste Onofré <j...@nanthrax.net> > > wrote: > > > > > > Hi Justin, > > > > > > That sounds reasonable to me to add in the maturity model. > > > > > > Regards > > > JB > > > > > > On Tue, Mar 25, 2025 at 6:56 AM Justin Mclean <jus...@classsoftware.com> > > wrote: > > >> > > >> Hi, > > >> > > >> There’s a discussion on the board list about using "creator of Apache > > Foo”. [1] Also, see the current policy on it. [2] (i.e “original creator” > > can be used, not “creator” but even that is discouraged.) > > >> > > >> We could possibly add an extra item to the maturity model [3] along the > > lines of “TB50. The project and third parties do not refer to anyone as > > “the creator/founder of Apache Foo”. with a link to the policy. What do > > people think? > > >> > > >> Kind Regards, > > >> Justin > > >> > > >> 1. https://lists.apache.org/thread/2vt9cb20nsvqqtt22b9yg6bp2ojxlvoz > > >> 2. https://apache.org/foundation/faq.html#marketing > > >> 3. > > https://community.apache.org/apache-way/apache-project-maturity-model.html > > >> > > >> > > >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > > >> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > > >> > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > > > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
