Yes, as Tianqi has mentioned, the PPMC members watch the commits and development of TVM podling using Github notifications, which sent to dev@ list. So, they are still in the podling list.
And of course we can always review the commits@ list via Pony mail [1] when needed. - Henry [1] https://lists.apache.org/list.html?comm...@tvm.apache.org On Thu, Aug 27, 2020 at 12:16 PM Tianqi Chen <tqc...@apache.org> wrote: > Thanks Dave! > > > > With no one subscribed to commits@ how is the PPMC watching the > codebase? > > > > I believe most of us watch the codebase through github instead of the > commits@. > Note that the github discuss issues (VOTE, RFC, COMMUNITY) are forwarded to > dev@(rather than commits), so we can make sure that anyone who > subscribed to dev@ can follow overall development, without having to be > overwhelmed by the information in raw gituhb notifications. > > With only one PPMC member subscribed it would be better not to have > > security list and instead count on securty@apache to inform private@tvm. > > > I agree that is our oversight, I created the security@mail-list, but later > realized that we can count on securty@apache, the current security guide > https://tvm.apache.org/docs/dev/security.html already points to > security@apache > but I forget to ask infra to remove the list > > To address the question about bringing in people to the committers. > The PPMC totally agrees about bringing in new members actively to the > community! And we are doing so in a quite steady fashion. > > I agree that there could be some cases where a person's proposal could be > slightly delayed, because I try to refrain from proposing new committers > from our own orgs. > But overall we find that our community members interact with each > other(outside their organizations) more often, and usually my fellow PMC > members bring them to the commiterships in a timely manner:) > I also think a slight lag is understandable given that most PPMC members > are volunteers from a diverse group and operate on their part time > capacity. > > Given both principles (not nominating from same org and un-official > reviewer) are voted by the community, and we use explicit disclaimer for > the cases, I believe it still works under the ASF framework. Just like the > un-official maturity model used by the incubator, which serves a goal to > the community to grow, rather than as a gatekeeper > > Again, we strive to continue the effort of bringing in new members to the > community, and nurturing community growth as we do so now. > > TQ > > > > > Regards, > > Dave > > > > > > > > Hope these answers help clarify your concerns and questions about the > > > Apache TVM community. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > - Henry > > > > > > On Thu, Aug 27, 2020 at 10:58 AM Tianqi Chen <tqc...@apache.org> > wrote: > > > > > >> Thank you Dave! > > >> > > >> (1) They have invented a new position between Contributor and > Committer > > >>> called “Reviewer”. I’m not sure why this was done. It seems to me > that > > >>> these individuals should just become Committers. > > >>> > > >> > > >> Reviewer is not an official position, but as a way for us to encourage > > >> reviews and find potential candidates for committerships. > > >> We use the following disclaimer which we sent during discussion a > > reviewer > > >> case and not vote is carried out(to lower bar of entry) > > >> > > >> Background: A Reviewer is not an official role, the community use this > > >> way to recognize potential committers early and bring them to the > > >> project development. Given the reviewer role is not official, we will > > >> only hold a discussion instead of a formal vote. We continue to follow > > >> the community’s principle to only nominate someone from a different > > >> organization. > > >> > > >> The recognition of (un-official) reviewer is voted by the community as > > part > > >> of Apache transition plan > > >> > > >> > > > https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/c34b728f01d1030146594e47e0706cd1990ed731d06e3c179b7d501a%40%3Cdev.tvm.apache.org%3E > > >> > > >> We strongly believe in nurturing contributions, welcome members to the > > >> community, and help the community to grow organically under the Apache > > way. > > >> The community is actively bringing in new committers, and we are doing > > so > > >> at a monthly rate. > > >> To encourage diversity and healthy growth the PPMC members strive to > > make a > > >> more diverse community by only nominating people from a different > > >> organization. > > >> So there could be cases where a person from my own organization that I > > >> think should be nominated as a committer, but I wait until the person > > get > > >> recognized by a fellow PMC member > > >> from another organization. This wait usually won't be too long. Even > > >> better, the community members work together with each other, > > >> since the most important factor is after all the community. > > >> > > >> (2) All discussions are threaded in GitHub and then reflected into the > > >>> dev@tvm mailing list. I just find this strange. > > >>> > > >> > > >> As per apache way, everything happens (also happens) on dev@tvm. We > > try to > > >> set up the mechanism to enable maximum participation from the > community, > > >> while complying with ASF rules :) > > >> The emails from the dev@tvm are also forwarded to the github thread. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >>> Also, the discussion thread looks like a vote. Nothing is really > > >> discussed > > >>> about satisfying graduation requirements. > > >>> > > >>> Did TVM fill out a Maturity Model? > > >>> > > >> > > >> Please see the maturity model here > > >> > > >> > > > https://docs.google.com/document/d/18nyAH-fcptVezAxPQe6H3FeTKPRkujOp1tc1YRSPLok/edit?usp=sharing > > >> The maturity model is attached as part of the community discussion as > > >> well(inlined in the email when community model is mentioned. > > >> > > >> TQ > > >> > > >> > > >> On Thu, Aug 27, 2020 at 10:43 AM Dave Fisher <w...@apache.org> wrote: > > >> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>>> On Aug 27, 2020, at 10:27 AM, Dave Fisher <w...@apache.org> wrote: > > >>>> > > >>>> Hi - > > >>>> > > >>>> I am bothered by two things that TVM does. > > >>>> > > >>>> (1) They have invented a new position between Contributor and > > Committer > > >>> called “Reviewer”. I’m not sure why this was done. It seems to me > that > > >>> these individuals should just become Committers. > > >>> > > >>> Looking a little more closely it seems that Reviewers ought to be PMC > > >>> Members. Please explain. > > >>> > > >>>> > > >>>> (2) All discussions are threaded in GitHub and then reflected into > the > > >>> dev@tvm mailing list. I just find this strange. > > >>>> > > >>>> Also, the discussion thread looks like a vote. Nothing is really > > >>> discussed about satisfying graduation requirements. > > >>>> > > >>>> Did TVM fill out a Maturity Model? > > >>> > > >>> I see you held that back until the VOTE thread. > > >>> > > >>>> > > >>>> Regards, > > >>>> Dave > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>>> On Aug 24, 2020, at 2:04 PM, Tianqi Chen <tqc...@apache.org> > wrote: > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Edit the subject so that it is obvious as a discussion thread in > > >>>>> general@incubator. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> TQ > > >>>>> > > >>>>> FYI, following a heated discussion with great support from our > > >> mentors, > > >>>>>> committers and community members. > > >>>>>> The Apache(incubating) TVM is starting a vote to graduate as TLP > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> - [1] community DISCUSS thread: > > >>>>>> > > >>> > > >> > > > https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/r91b8f469c6a54769869bb2435b7334a28bcff885ae078ab5612dae00%40%3Cdev.tvm.apache.org%3E > > >>>>>> - [2] voting thread: > > >>>>>> > > >>> > > >> > > > https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/rd5b8eefe49af09a2d0913758a5e5737b3fdb9072bc0becf4a2b2c7ee%40%3Cdev.tvm.apache.org%3E > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> TQ > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> ---------- Forwarded message --------- > > >>>>>> From: Tianqi Chen <notificati...@github.com> > > >>>>>> Date: Mon, Aug 24, 2020 at 1:51 PM > > >>>>>> Subject: [apache/incubator-tvm] [VOTE] Apache TVM Graduation > (#6332) > > >>>>>> To: apache/incubator-tvm <incubator-...@noreply.github.com> > > >>>>>> Cc: Subscribed <subscri...@noreply.github.com> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> Dear Community: > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> Thanks to everyone who participated in the discussion about > > >>>>>> graduation[1]. This is a formal voting thread for Apache TVM’s > > >>> graduation. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> If this vote passes, the next step would be to submit the > resolution > > >>> below > > >>>>>> to the Incubator PMC, who would vote on sending it on to the > Apache > > >>> Board. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> Vote: > > >>>>>> [ ] +1 - Recommend graduation of Apache TVM as a TLP > > >>>>>> [ ] 0 - I don't feel strongly about it, but don't object > > >>>>>> [ ] -1 - Do not recommend graduation of Apache TVM because... > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> The VOTE will open for at least 72 hours. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> This thread is mirrored to dev@, please vote by replying to this > > >>> thread > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> ------------------ > > >>>>>> The TVM project has been an Apache incubator project for nearly > 1.5 > > >>> year > > >>>>>> now. In the past one and half year, the community grew healthily > > >> under > > >>> the > > >>>>>> Apache way. Some highlights include: > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> - A successful developer conference that we are continuing to host > > >> this > > >>>>>> year > > >>>>>> - Great community growth, as of now, the community contains 16 > PPMC > > >>>>>> members, 31 committers, from a diverse list of organizations. We > are > > >>>>>> actively growing the list monthly. > > >>>>>> - Active contributions: ~ 150 PRs merged each month. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> The community has produced two formal apache releases. While we > > could > > >>> also > > >>>>>> wait until more releases. We feel that the community is mature > > enough > > >>> that > > >>>>>> we can push for graduation as it is, and continue to push for high > > >>> quality > > >>>>>> releases concurrently. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> For reference, we also put together a maturity evaluation doc[2] > > >> under > > >>> the > > >>>>>> Apache maturity model. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> Some additional note about the resolution below: the current PPMC > > >> will > > >>> be > > >>>>>> transitioned to the PMC. We have invited all the mentors in the > > >> current > > >>>>>> PPMC who like to stay involved. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> ----------------- > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> Establish the Apache TVM Project > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it to be in the best > interests > > >> of > > >>>>>> the Foundation and consistent with the Foundation's purpose to > > >>> establish > > >>>>>> a Project Management Committee charged with the creation and > > >>> maintenance > > >>>>>> of open-source software, for distribution at no charge to the > > public, > > >>>>>> related to compilation of machine learning models to run on a wide > > >>> range > > >>>>>> of hardware platforms... > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that a Project Management > Committee > > >>>>>> (PMC), to be known as the "Apache TVM Project", be and hereby is > > >>>>>> established pursuant to Bylaws of the Foundation; and be it > further > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> RESOLVED, that the Apache TVM Project be and hereby is responsible > > >> for > > >>> the > > >>>>>> creation and maintenance of software related to compilation of > > >> machine > > >>>>>> learning models to run on a wide range of hardware platforms; and > be > > >> it > > >>>>>> further > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Apache TVM" be and > > >>>>>> hereby is created, the person holding such office to serve at the > > >>>>>> direction of the Board of Directors as the chair of the Apache TVM > > >>>>>> Project, and to have primary responsibility for management of the > > >>>>>> projects within the scope of responsibility of the Apache TVM > > >>>>>> Project; and be it further > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> RESOLVED, that the persons listed immediately below be and hereby > > are > > >>>>>> appointed to serve as the initial members of the Apache TVM > Project: > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> * Tianqi Chen <tqc...@apache.org> > > >>>>>> * Timothy Chen <tnac...@apache.org> > > >>>>>> * Zhi Chen <z...@apache.org> > > >>>>>> * Byung-Gon Chun <bgc...@apache.org> > > >>>>>> * Ziheng Jiang <zih...@apache.org> > > >>>>>> * Furkan Kamaci <kam...@apache.org> > > >>>>>> * YiZhi Liu <liuyi...@apache.org> > > >>>>>> * Masahiro Masuda <mas...@apache.org> > > >>>>>> * Thierry Moreau <mor...@apache.org> > > >>>>>> * Jared Roesch <jroe...@apache.org> > > >>>>>> * Henry Saputra <hsapu...@apache.org> > > >>>>>> * Haichen Shen <haic...@apache.org> > > >>>>>> * Markus Weimer <wei...@apache.org> > > >>>>>> * Eddie Yan <e...@apache.org> > > >>>>>> * Lianmin Zheng <lmzh...@apache.org> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that Tianqi Chen be > > appointed > > >>> to > > >>>>>> the office of Vice President, Apache TVM, to serve in accordance > > >>>>>> with and subject to the direction of the Board of Directors and > the > > >>>>>> Bylaws of the Foundation until death, resignation, retirement, > > >> removal > > >>>>>> or disqualification, or until a successor is appointed; and be it > > >>>>>> further > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> RESOLVED, that the Apache TVM Project be and hereby is tasked with > > >>>>>> the migration and rationalization of the Apache Incubator TVM > > >>>>>> podling; and be it further > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> RESOLVED, that all responsibilities pertaining to the Apache > > >> Incubator > > >>>>>> TVM podling encumbered upon the Apache Incubator PMC are > hereafter > > >>>>>> Discharged. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> - [1] > > >>>>>> > > >>> > > >> > > > https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/r91b8f469c6a54769869bb2435b7334a28bcff885ae078ab5612dae00%40%3Cdev.tvm.apache.org%3E > > >>>>>> - [2] > > >>>>>> > > >>> > > >> > > > https://docs.google.com/document/d/18nyAH-fcptVezAxPQe6H3FeTKPRkujOp1tc1YRSPLok/edit?usp=sharing > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> -- > > >>>>>> You are receiving this because you are subscribed to this thread. > > >>>>>> Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub: > > >>>>>> https://github.com/apache/incubator-tvm/issues/6332 > > >>>>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > > >>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > > >>>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > > >>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > > >>> > > >>> > > >> > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > > > > >
