Hi Kenn,

I know a project that came to the incubator with even less initial committers 
and that's now a TLP ;-)

I agree that the number is small, but they want it to grow and that's one of 
the reasons they want to come to Apache.

I guess the committer-base size and diversity should be a barrier to go to TLP, 
not to come into the incubator.

Chris


Am 31.10.19, 11:01 schrieb "Julian Feinauer" <j.feina...@pragmaticminds.de>:

    Hi Kenn,
    
    knowing the "core-team" behind it personally I agree with your point.
    It is a small and not diverse community (from one institution currently) 
behind the project.
    So an important part of the discussion here is also to get feedback from 
other individuals and communities what they think and if they are willing to be 
part of such a project.
    
    We, in my company are currently evaluating the project and do a small 
meetup together with the guys to challenge it against our use cases and if we 
adopt it, I'm pretty sure that at least 2 people from us (one being me) will 
become active as contributors.
    
    Julian
    
    Am 31.10.19, 01:48 schrieb "Kenneth Knowles" <k...@apache.org>:
    
        Cool!
        
        I see you have mentors lined up. I would love to also be involved as 
mentor.
        
        The list of initial committers seems a little small. Browsing the commit
        history it does seem to be dominated by just a couple of contributors. I
        see this is acknowledged (at least implicitly) in the proposal. I 
expect a
        principal challenge will be attracting diverse contributors, committers,
        and PMC to ensure this project survives independent of any particular
        entity (individual or corporate).
        
        Kenn
        
        On Wed, Oct 30, 2019 at 1:16 PM Dominik Riemer <rie...@fzi.de> wrote:
        
        > Hi all,
        >
        >
        >
        > a short introduction to myself: My name is Dominik Riemer and I'm a
        > co-initiator of StreamPipes, an open source self-service toolbox for
        > analyzing IoT data streams. After presenting the tool at this year's
        > ApacheCon NA, followed by very friendly and fruitful discussions with 
many
        > people from the Apache community, we are sure that we'd like continue 
the
        > development of StreamPipes as an Apache community project. Before we 
start
        > a discussion process, I'd like to ask to get write access to the 
Incubator
        > wiki (username: riemer). An initial draft of the proposal is attached 
below.
        >
        >
        >
        > Thanks for your help!
        >
        > Dominik
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > --------------------------------
        >
        >
        >
        > StreamPipes - Apache Incubator Proposal, Proposal Draft
        >
        >
        >
        > == Abstract ==
        >
        > StreamPipes is a self-service (Industrial) IoT toolbox to enable
        > non-technical users to connect, analyze and explore (Industrial) IoT 
data
        > streams.
        >
        >
        >
        > = Proposal =
        >
        >
        >
        > The goal of StreamPipes 
(www.streampipes.org<http://www.streampipes.org>)
        > is to provide an easy-to-use toolbox for non-technical users, e.g., 
domain
        > experts, to exploit data streams coming from (Industrial) IoT 
devices. Such
        > users are provided with an intuitive graphical user interface with the
        > Pipeline Editor at its core. Users are able to graphically model 
processing
        > pipelines based on data sources (streams), data processors and data 
sinks.
        > Data processors and sinks are self-contained microservices, which 
implement
        > either stateful or stateless processing logic (e.g., a trend 
detection or
        > image classifier). Their processing logic is implemented using one of
        > several provided wrappers (we currently have wrappers for
        > standalone/Edge-based processing, Apache Flink, Siddhi and working 
wrapper
        > prototypes for Apache Kafka Streams and Spark, in the future we also 
plan
        > to integrate with Apache Beam). An SDK allows to easily create new 
pipeline
        > elements. Pipeline elements can be installed at runtime. To support 
users
        > in creating pipelines, an underlying semantics-based data model 
enables
        > pipeline elements to express requirements on incoming data streams 
that
        > need to be fulfilled, thus reducing modeling errors.
        >
        > Data streams are integrated by using StreamPipes Connect, which 
allows to
        > connect data sources (based on standard protocols, such as MQTT, 
Kafka,
        > Pulsar, OPC-UA and further PLC4X-supported protocols) without further
        > programming using a graphical wizard. Additional user-faced modules of
        > StreamPipes are a Live dashboard to quickly explore IoT data streams 
and a
        > wizard that generates code templates for new pipeline elements, a 
Pipeline
        > Element Installer used to extend the algorithm feature set at runtime.
        >
        >
        >
        > === Background ===
        >
        > StreamPipes was started in 2014 by researchers from FZI Research 
Center
        > for Information Technology in Karlsruhe, Germany. The original 
prototype
        > was funded by an EU project centered around predictive analytics for 
the
        > manufacturing domain. Since then, StreamPipes was constantly improved 
and
        > extended by public funding mainly from federal German ministries. In 
early
        > 2018, the source code was officially released under the Apache 
License 2.0.
        > At the same time, while we focused on bringing the research prototype 
to a
        > production-grade tool, the first companies started to use StreamPipes.
        > Currently, the primary goal is to widen the user and developer base. 
At
        > ApacheCon NA 2019, after having talked to many people from the Apache
        > Community, we finally decided that we would like to bring StreamPipes 
to
        > the Apache Incubator.
        >
        >
        >
        > === Rationale ===
        >
        > The (Industrial) IoT domain is a highly relevant and emerging sector.
        > Currently, IoT platforms are offered by many vendors ranging from 
SMEs up
        > to large enterprises. We believe that open source alternatives are an
        > important cornerstone for manufacturing companies to easily adopt
        > data-driven decision making. From our point of view, StreamPipes fits 
very
        > well into the existing (I)IoT ecosystem within the ASF, with projects 
such
        > as Apache PLC4X focusing on connecting machine data from PLCs, or 
other
        > tools we are also using either in the core of StreamPipes or with
        > integrations (Apache Kafka, Apache IoTDB, Apache Pulsar). StreamPipes
        > itself focuses on enabling self-service IoT data analytics for
        > non-technical users.
        >
        > The whole StreamPipes code is currently on Github. To get a rough 
estimate
        > of the project size:
        >
        > * streampipes: Backend and core modules, ~3300 commits
        >
        > * streampipes-ui: User Interface, ~1300 commits
        >
        > * streampipes-pipeline-elements: ~100 Pipeline Elements (data
        > processors/algorithms and sinks), ~500 Commits
        >
        > * streampipes-connect-adapters: ~20 Adapters to connect data, ~100 
commits
        > To achieve our goal to further extend the code base with new 
features, new
        > connectors and new algorithms and to grow both the user and developer
        > community, we believe that a community-driven development process is 
the
        > best way to further develop StreamPipes. Finally, after having talked 
to
        > committers from various Apache IoT-related projects and participation 
in
        > spontaneous hacking sessions and being impressed by the collaboration 
among
        > individual projects, we decided that (from our point of view) the ASF 
is
        > the ideal place to be the future home of StreamPipes.
        >
        >
        >
        > === Initial Goals ===
        >
        > * Move the existing codebase to Apache
        >
        > * Fully align with Apache development- and release processes
        >
        > * Perform name search and do a thorough review of existing licenses
        >
        > * First Apache release
        >
        >
        >
        > === Current Status ===
        >
        > ** Meritocracy **
        >
        > We are absolutely committed to strengthen StreamPipes as a real
        > community-driven open source project. The existing committer base is 
highly
        > motivated to foster the open source way in the industrial IoT sector 
and,
        > together with existing Apache communities focused on this domain, 
provide
        > open source tooling for Industrial IoT projects in the same way Apache
        > offers in the Big Data space, for instance.
        >
        > The development philosophy behind StreamPipes has always followed the
        > principles of meritocracy - although most committers are still active 
in
        > the project, we managed to onboard new, committed developers 
regularly. 2
        > people, who are today core of the developer team, have joined during 
the
        > past year. Therefore, we would aim to continuously expand the PMC and
        > committer base based on merit.
        >
        >
        >
        > ** Community **
        >
        > Since being open-sourced in 2018, the public interest in StreamPipes 
has
        > steadily grown. Several companies, mainly from the manufacturing 
domain,
        > have tested StreamPipes in form of proof-of-concept projects. First
        > companies have started to use StreamPipes in production. This was due 
to a
        > high number of events from meetups, research conferences, demo 
sessions up
        > to hackathons we participated or organized during the past two years. 
After
        > having generated a general interest in StreamPipes, our next focus 
will be
        > to find more committers to diversify the contributor base.
        >
        >
        >
        > ** Core Developers **
        >
        > The core developers of the system are Dominik Riemer, Philipp Zehnder,
        > Patrick Wiener and Johannes Tex. All core developers are initial 
committers
        > in the current proposal. Some former students who recently started to 
work
        > at companies and who have also worked on the project with great 
commitment,
        > will be asked to further contribute to the project.
        >
        >
        >
        > ** Alignment **
        >
        > StreamPipes has dependencies to a lot of existing Apache projects - 
this
        > is one reason why we think that the ASF is the best future home for
        > StreamPipes. The messaging layer is based on Apache Kafka (and also 
Apache
        > Pulsar as a future option), and runtime wrappers exist for Apache 
Flink,
        > Apache Spark and Apache Kafka Streams. StreamPipes Connect already 
includes
        > adapters for several Apache projects. Most importantly, we integrate 
(and
        > plan to deepen the integration) with IIoT-focused projects such as 
Apache
        > PLC4X. Also, several data sinks exist to send messages to tools from 
other
        > Apache projects (e.g., Apache Kafka, Apache Pulsar, and Apache IoTDB).
        > Together with these tools (and also after having talked to the core
        > developers after this year's ApacheCon) we are absolutely convinced 
that a
        > tight integration between these tools will strengthen the open source 
IoT
        > ecosystem.
        >
        >
        >
        > === Known Risks ===
        >
        > ** Orphaned Products **
        >
        > We don't expect the risk of an orphaned product. The initial 
committers
        > have worked on the project for years and are absolutely committed to 
making
        > this open source tool a great success. All initial committers are 
committed
        > to work on StreamPipes in their free time.
        >
        >
        >
        > ** Inexperience with Open Source **
        >
        > All initial committers have years of expertise related to open source
        > development and understand what open source means. However, none of 
the
        > initial committers are currently committers to Apache projects, 
although
        > some have already contributed to some projects. From a variety of 
events
        > and from intensively studying Apache mailing lists, we are sure that 
the
        > Apache Way is the way we'd like the project to move into the future. 
We
        > expect to benefit from the experiences from the ASF in building 
successful
        > open source projects.
        >
        >
        >
        > ** Length of Incubation **
        >
        > We are aware that incubation is a process that is focused on building 
the
        > community, learning the Apache Way and other important things such as
        > learning the release process and handling licensing and trademark 
issues.
        > We are also aware that, although there is a steadily increasing 
interest in
        > StreamPipes, a major challenge we would need (and are willing) to 
work on
        > during the incubation phase is widening the committer base. We look 
forward
        > to that as a large developer base is exactly what we are striving for.
        >
        >
        >
        > ** Homogeneous Developers **
        >
        > Most current developers work for the same institution (FZI). The
        > motivation of all developers goes beyond their commitment to work and 
all
        > current committers work on StreamPipes in their free time. Recently, 
we
        > have received first pull requests from external contributors and a 
growing
        > interest from users and companies outside of FZI. First manufacturing
        > companies have already evaluated and adopted StreamPipes. To attract
        > external developers, we've created an extensive documentation, have a 
Slack
        > channel to quickly answer questions, and provide help via mail. 
Therefore,
        > we believe that making the developer community more heterogeneous is 
not
        > only mandatory, but something that can be achieved during the next 
months.
        >
        >
        >
        > ** Reliance on salaried developers **
        >
        > Currently, StreamPipes receives support from salaried developers, 
mainly
        > research scientists from FZI. However, all core developers 
substantially
        > work on StreamPipes in their spare time. As this has been the case 
from the
        > beginning in early 2014, it can be expected that a substantial 
portion of
        > volunteers will continue to be working on the project and we aim at
        > strengthening the base of non-paid committers and paid committers of 
other
        > companies. At the same time, funding of the initial StreamPipes team 
is
        > secured by public funding for the next few years, making sure that 
there
        > will be also enough commitment from developers during their work time.
        >
        >
        >
        > ** Relationships with other Apache products ** StreamPipes is often
        > compared to tools such as Node-Red and Apache Nifi. This is mainly 
based on
        > a similar UI concept (dataflow approach). Despite some technological
        > differences (e.g., the microservice analytics approach vs. single-host
        > runtime of Node-Red, the wrapper architecture and the underlying
        > semantics-based model), we believe the target audience differs. We 
aim to
        > collaborate with the Apache Nifi community in terms of exchanging best
        > practices and also integrating both projects (e.g., by building 
connectors).
        >
        > As mentioned above, quite a few adapters and data sinks are already
        > available that link to existing Apache projects.
        >
        >
        >
        > ** An excessive fascination with the Apache Brand ** Although we 
recognize
        > the Apache brand as the most visible brand in the open source domain, 
the
        > primary goal of this proposal is not to create publicity, but to 
widen the
        > developer base. We believe that successful projects have broad and 
diverse
        > communities. We expect that an Apache project, with a clear and 
proven way
        > to develop open source software, helps in finding new committers. As 
the
        > core development team has already worked on StreamPipes for the past 
few
        > years and is fully committed to the software and its benefit for the
        > industrial IoT domain, we would also continue development without 
being an
        > Apache project.
        >
        >
        >
        > === Documentation ===
        >
        > Currently, we host a website at https://www.streampipes.org More
        > technical info (user + developer guide) can be found in the 
documentation:
        > https://docs.streampipes.org, where users can find tutorials and 
manuals
        > on how to extend StreamPipes using the SDK.
        >
        >
        >
        > === Initial Source ===
        >
        > Currently, the following Github repositories exist, all licensed 
under the
        > Apache Software License 2.0:
        >
        > * streampipes (https://www.github.com /streampipes/streampipes, the
        > backend & pipeline management module)
        >
        > * streampipes-ui (https://www.github.com/streampipes/streampipes-ui, 
the
        > UI module)
        >
        > * streampipes-pipeline-elements (
        > https://www.github.com/streampipes/streampipes-pipeline-elements, 
library
        > of data processors and sinks)
        >
        > * streampipes-connect-adapters (
        > https://www.github.com/streampipes/streampipes-connect-adapters,
        > StreamPipes connect adapters)
        >
        > * streampipes-docs 
(https://www.github.com/streampipes/streampipes-docs,
        > the abovementioned documentation)
        >
        >
        >
        > === Source and intellectual property submission plan === All initial
        > committers will sign a ICLA with the ASF. FZI, as the organizational 
body
        > that has employed the main contributors of StreamPipes, will sign a 
CCLA
        > and donate the codebase to the ASF (both subject to formal approval). 
All
        > major contributors are still active in the project.
        >
        >
        >
        > === External Dependencies ===
        >
        > We did an initial review of all dependencies used in the various 
projects.
        > No critical libraries that depend on category X licenses were found, 
some
        > minor issues have already been resolved (e.g., removing dependencies 
to
        > org.json libraries). Most external dependencies used by the Java-based
        > (backend, pipeline-elements and connect) modules are licensed under 
the
        > Apache License 2.0, whereas some licenses are Cat B (e.g., CDDL). Most
        > external dependencies the UI requires on are licensed under the MIT 
license.
        >
        > Once we are moving to the Incubator, we would do a complete check of 
all
        > transitive dependencies. We don't expect any surprises here.
        >
        >
        >
        > === Cryptography ===
        >
        > (not applicable)
        >
        >
        >
        > === Required Resources ===
        >
        > ** Mailing Lists **
        >
        > We plan to use the following mailing lists:
        >
        > * us...@streampipes.incubator.apache.org<mailto:
        > us...@streampipes.incubator.apache.org>
        >
        > * d...@streampipes.incubator.apache.org<mailto:
        > d...@streampipes.incubator.apache.org>
        >
        > * priv...@streampipes.incubator.apache.org<mailto:
        > priv...@streampipes.incubator.apache.org>
        >
        > * comm...@streampipes.incubator.apache.org<mailto:
        > comm...@streampipes.incubator.apache.org>
        >
        > As StreamPipes is targeted to a non-technical audience, we see a 
dedicated
        > user mailing list as an important requirement to help users.
        >
        >
        >
        > ** Subversion directory **
        >
        > (not applicable)
        >
        >
        >
        > ** Git repositories **
        >
        > We would like to use Git for source code management and enable Github
        > mirroring functionality.
        >
        >
        >
        > As we plan to merge some of the repos described above to simplify the
        > release process we ask to create the following source repositories:
        >
        > * streampipes (containing backend + UI)
        >
        > * streampipes-extensions (containing modules that can be dynamically
        > installed at runtime: pipeline elements and connect adapters)
        >
        > * streampipes-website (containing docs + website)
        >
        >
        >
        > ** Issue tracking **
        >
        > JIRA ID: StreamPipes
        >
        >
        >
        > === Initial Committers ===
        >
        > List of initial committers in alphabetical order:
        >
        > Christofer Dutz (christofer.dutz at c-ware dot de) Dominik Riemer 
(dominik
        > dot riemer at gmail dot com) Johannes Tex (tex at fzi dot de) Patrick
        > Wiener (wiener at fzi dot de) Philipp Zehnder (zehnder at fzi dot de)
        >
        >
        >
        > === Sponsors ===
        >
        > ** Champion **
        >
        > * Christofer Dutz (christofer.dutz at c-ware dot de)
        >
        >
        >
        > ** Mentors **
        >
        > * Christofer Dutz (christofer.dutz at c-ware dot de)
        >
        > * Julian Feinauer (Jfeinauer at apache dot org)
        >
        > * Justin Mclean (justin at classsoftware dot com)
        >
        >
        >
        > ** Sponsoring Entity **
        >
        > The Apache Incubator
        >
        >
        
    
    
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